Asking for advice - Which manual lathe?

For non-commercial use. What are you initial thoughts, two choices from the same manufacturer. The cheaper one is their older model. Better value? Short-sighted? Neither?

A) Centre Lathe D1-4 camlock $7029 AUD ($5,119.22 USD)
12" over bed
7" over cross slide
3.5" compound travel
36" between centers
1.5" bore
1034 lbs
2hp 70-1400rpm single phase
threading dial
2 axis dro with absolute scales
gear box requires manually removed change gears to switch between metric and imperial, additionally metric threading range is spread over 3 separate change gear configurations

B) Centre Lathe D1-4 camlock $10879 AUD ($7,923.18 USD)
14" over bed
9" over cross slide
4" compound travel
39" between centers
1.5" bore
1543 lbs
2hp 82-2000rpm single phase
threading dial
2 axis dro with absolute scales
gear box requires manually removed change gears to switch between metric and imperial, all metric threading range is on a single change gear configuration

There is a separate $869 AUD ($631.89 USD) 12" taper turning attachment available for both so compound travel is not required for tapers.

And, both are the same when left configured for imperial threading, all available at once through the gear box knobs.

Legamin said:

I recently purchased a G0602 10-22 lathe with extra 4 jaw 10” chuck, DRO, dual balance rests and flexible threading capacity and speed. It’s only 1 horse power

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Home Page - Projects and Articles on Our Forum! | The Hobby-Machinist is the place for YOu sir....

Consider carefully as some times you can get a near mint industrial lathe for the same price as one that might be considered a hobby lathe.

michiganbuck said:

Consider carefully as some times you can get a near mint industrial lathe for the same price as one that might be considered a hobby lathe.

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in Australia? .....................very very very sometimes

Thank you so very much for your terse, if not mildly rude, brush off. I think I’ll stay. And perhaps you might consider that the lathe one has that meets the needs of their business doesn’t necessarily reflect their life experience. Having a shop burn to the ground puts a crimp in the speed with which you can build back up to larger machines which in turn allow for expanding the new business without plummeting into a black hole of debt during a slow economy.
Best of luck in your clearly superior world.

I wouldn't get to upset with Digger Doug's post. I have the same lathe as you except mine is 20+ years old and I am a hobby machinist. The rules state that Chinese junk machines which we both have should not be mentioned. Hobby Machinist and Home Shop Machinist are two forums that cater to home shop machinists.
Half my family are machinists, they consider my lathe and mill-drill toys. Even so they help me out when I need it.
I did look for American made lathes , never got their in time. Missed out on a 10" Logan, Standard Modern and a Pacemaker that was to big for my shop.
Settled for the 10x22. I also have a mini-lathe that I got for free. I learned on this one. Probably shouldn't have mentioned that.
Sorry to hear about your shop fire, hope you recover financially soon.
mike

I'll address this comment to hobby guys. There is no comparison between a hobby machine and a industrial size equivalent. It isn't even close where the industrial machine is infinitely better. Then there is the age thing. Industrial manual machines have close to a 100 year effective life span assuming decent maintenance. Hobbyists have size and space restrictions, industrial shops not so much. Machine prices reflect demand. Small manual machines command much higher prices than larger ones because hobbyists are the major market for used machines. Location is also a major driver for machine pricing. If you live in Alaska or Australia, don't expect good prices. Hobbyists need maximum capability and usability out of their machines because of their space limitations. That means their machines requires ALL the accessories available, widest speed range, range of threads and commonality of spindle type as that reflects accessory cost and availability.

This forum is designed for professionals not hobbyists. Hobbyists need to consider their use of this forum in that light. I am a hobbyist, but I don't own any hobby machines, nor would I ever consider owning any.

steve-l said:

This forum is designed for professionals not hobbyists. Hobbyists need to consider their use of this forum in that light. I am a hobbyist, but I don't own any hobby machines, nor would I ever consider owning any.

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"Decorators" cost too much if nothing else.

More usefully, it is NOT about status nor prestige.

I WISH that more folks - reagrdless of their skills - would recognize the far more basic differentiator.

Go where the familiarity with your area of interest - whichever it is - is most likely to be FOUND!

One who seeks advice about ballet slippers for a pre-teen daughter, a bicycle for a son, a new stove for the kitchen, which type of shingles for a new roof, will not FIND a lot of expertise on any of those subjects by asking in a coal mine or at the docks where they unload container ships.

Match the search area to the concentration of folks with similar goods, interests, and experience. Hobby goods == hobby forums.

One gets more useful information, better quality of it, more checks and balances as to pro's and con's, good experiences, not so good experiences, warranty tales, good and bad.. .. and gets it all far FASTER than if intentionally looking in the WRONG PLACE!

.. then getting all stuffy and wasting time because hog farmers don't have a great deal of interest in party balloons or manicure parlour staff are not up to speed on marine Diesel engines.

WTF?

That mis-match is just a waste of time for all involved.

All I see is alleged lathes that weigh only a third of what a lathe needs to weigh for the claimed work envelope and with but a third the power as well.

That means they take a lot longer to DO whatever it is they CAN do.

Rich man's toys of that sort are a waste of money and time that is a greater luxury than my modest means can afford to piss away!

As a poor man, I must go and find a more affordable lathe that can actually do the work, hold accuracy at it. And near-as-dammit "for life" not just for a little while.

Used-but-good value-for-money pick up truck. Not brand-new and over-priced motor-scooter.

Can't afford to own either? Life has always been FULL of stuff we want and cannot afford.

Take public transport. Hire when need be from he who has. Or simply wish-for free lunch whilst pounding sand.

How hard was that, anyway?

steve-l said:

I'll address this comment to hobby guys. There is no comparison between a hobby machine and a industrial size equivalent. It isn't even close where the industrial machine is infinitely better. Then there is the age thing. Industrial manual machines have close to a 100 year effective life span assuming decent maintenance. Hobbyists have size and space restrictions, industrial shops not so much. Machine prices reflect demand. Small manual machines command much higher prices than larger ones because hobbyists are the major market for used machines. Location is also a major driver for machine pricing. If you live in Alaska or Australia, don't expect good prices. Hobbyists need maximum capability and usability out of their machines because of their space limitations. That means their machines requires ALL the accessories available, widest speed range, range of threads and commonality of spindle type as that reflects accessory cost and availability.

This forum is designed for professionals not hobbyists. Hobbyists need to consider their use of this forum in that light. I am a hobbyist, but I don't own any hobby machines, nor would I ever consider owning any.

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And then sometimes the lines get blurred...

If 1.5" bore 36" bc 1500lbs 2hp is too light a machine to work properly, I'm going to have to ask dealers for quotes because most 3000lbs 5hp + machines are all request quote so I've requested a quote for a machine in my shed to a few and I just wonder what they'll end up recommending or quoting me.

woodstove said:

If 1.5" bore 36" bc 1500lbs 2hp is too light a machine to work properly, I'm going to have to ask dealers for quotes because most 3000lbs 5hp + machines are all request quote so I've requested a quote for a machine in my shed to a few and I just wonder what they'll end up recommending or quoting me.

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Please read my post again........you don't get it. It is not about size or power. It is about usability, accuracy and repeatability. Bottom line, don't buy shit and buy it totally equipped . New is not always better than old, it depends.

If you have the money, and won’t have to starve for a month to pay for the larger one, then I’d go for that one. Higher rpms, larger travels etc. I’m not going to get in he fight about what deep down in our hearts makes a hobby machine but I’ll say I’ve never paid more than $2,000 usd for a lathe, all my machines are heavy American iron(I obviously don’t know what your used market is like) But if I had more work to do I would have no qualms about buying a grizzly to do it if there was only crapped out machines around me. If it makes the parts on spec, the check clears just the same as if it was made on my hydrashift.

That being said 1500 lbs is a little light. Usually that’s because the stands on those machines are sheet metal. If it were me I would skip the base and an a real sturdy one and bolt it into the ground. That would make all the difference on that kind of machine.

Hope you end up with the machine that will makes the most sense for what you need,
Miles

sometimes the base is more important than the lathe.

woodstove said:

If 1.5" bore 36" bc 1500lbs 2hp is too light a machine to work properly, I'm going to have to ask dealers for quotes because most 3000lbs 5hp + machines are all request quote so I've requested a quote for a machine in my shed to a few and I just wonder what they'll end up recommending or quoting me.

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Problem is "manual' lathes are a niche minority in a CNC // teach-in hybrid CNC world.

So the next level up is a better-grade of "Taiwanese generic", maybe $18,000 USD, delivered in Oz, then up one more step to South Korean Wacheon/Webb.

And yer looking at around $30,000 or so, USD.

But don't take-off in the wrong direction!

I was serious that it is not about status, nor prestige.

The light machine might be EXACTLY what YOU need.

Comes down to how OFTEN you need it at all, and for WHAT.

That said, if light is good enough, a used "medium" or even a "heavy' machine can DO light work easier than the other way around.

US market many serious heavy IRON ones can be had for HALF or less the prices you are seeing for a new styrofoam one. The money saved buys a WEALTH of tooling and workholding.

Ergo many of us run heavier lathes than we need because we are USED to them and......they are CHEAP, even well-tooled!

Australian market is what it is, and yes, used machine-tools starvation rations by comparison, we are aware of that.

momalley4211 said:

That being said 1500 lbs is a little light. Usually that’s because the stands on those machines are sheet metal. If it were me I would skip the base and an a real sturdy one and bolt it into the ground. That would make all the difference on that kind of machine.

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That works well and makes a meaningful difference but needs to be done right or it may damage the machine. I have seen quite a few lathes damaged by careless bolting down, some even cracked.

Orbital77 said:

That works well and makes a meaningful difference but needs to be done right or it may damage the machine. I have seen quite a few lathes damaged by careless bolting down, some even cracked.

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Counter to that would be a Hardinge "office desk" looking base that is both heavy AND stiff.

The bigger issue with the lathe pictured is that classical dead give-away of lathes built to a price-point rather than to a performance point.

The carriage far too NARROW! That gets greater travel into a shorter bed, saves on materials, opens broader market, even saves on sea freight and last-mile truck freight. So they do it.

It also greatly accelerates wear-rate of the underside of the carriage for having such mass as it has (not a lot) concentrated over a MUCH lesser square area.

And then it TIPS, rocking-horse style under lower stress, loses accuracy sooner, is more prone to vibration and chatter.

Contrast that with a War ONE era Hendey tie-bar. Massive bed. Looong carriage, wear is slower, effects of wear are averaged-out, even if not rebuilt.

Some are still turning out BETTER finishes than brand-new Chicoms after a hundred full years of use.

The middle-ground exists. South Korean. Czech or other Eastern European.

All else NEW b'long CNC, and quite reasonably, it SHOULD DO, what with fifty years of progress or so since punched-tape "NC" came on the scene.

thermite said:

Counter to that would be a Hardinge "office desk" looking base that is both heavy AND stiff.

The bigger issue with the lathe pictured is that classical dead give-away of lathes built to a price-point rather than to a performance point.

The carriage far too NARROW! That gets greater travel into a shorter bed, saves on materials, opens broader market, even saves on sea freight and last-mile truck freight. So they do it.

It also greatly accelerates wear-rate of the underside of the carriage for having such mass as it has (not a lot) concentrated over a MUCH lesser square area.

And then it TIPS, rocking-horse style under lower stress, loses accuracy sooner, is more prone to vibration and chatter.

Contrast that with a War ONE era Hendey tie-bar. Massive bed. Looong carriage, wear is slower, effects of wear are averaged-out, even if not rebuilt.

Some are still turning out BETTER finishes than brand-new Chicoms after a hundred full years of use.

The middle-ground exists. South Korean. Czech or other Eastern European.

All else NEW b'long CNC, and quite reasonably, it SHOULD DO, what with fifty years of progress or so since punched-tape "NC" came on the scene.

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Yep, nothing I could disagree with. I could add that one should try have an idea how strong the apron gears are and also how accurate. This will matter in both very heavy and very light cuts and can cause a lot of head scratching trying to figure out things. I have some experience with lathes and I realize the OP has a bit of a problem on his hands. Not much to buy at those price points. He might want to see if the Spanish manufacturer Pinacho is represented in Australia. I've seen a couple of Pinacho lathes and tey weren't bad. Reasonably decent build. Very substantial ways with excellent finish, large diameter quill ( attention to small dia quills in Chinese machines - they'll wear FAST ), helical gear rack for long traverse etc . Overall, quite nice. Limited threading capabilities and not quite the feeds I'd like to see.

Orbital77 said:

Yep, nothing I could disagree with. I could add that one should try have an idea how strong the apron gears are and also how accurate. This will matter in both very heavy and very light cuts and can cause a lot of head scratching trying to figure out things. I have some experience with lathes and I realize the OP has a bit of a problem on his hands. Not much to buy at those price points. He might want to see if the Spanish manufacturer Pinacho is represented in Australia. I've seen a couple of Pinacho lathes and tey weren't bad. Reasonably decent build. Very substantial ways with excellent finish, large diameter quill ( attention to small dia quills in Chinese machines - they'll wear FAST ), helical gear rack for long traverse etc . Overall, quite nice. Limited threading capabilities and not quite the feeds I'd like to see.

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Pinacho are decent. LATAM target market. Spain lost them as colonies, gained solid trading partners.

Similar with Jo'Burg and the African nations that claim to hate the Afikaans.. until they need a railroad, cannon, armoured car, or modern city infrastructure goods they can actually afford that JF works. Etc.

With Egypt a chronic disaster limping, RSA is the only technical reservoir on the whole danged continent!

woodstove said:

For non-commercial use. What are you initial thoughts, two choices from the same manufacturer. The cheaper one is their older model. Better value? Short-sighted? Neither?

A) Centre Lathe D1-4 camlock $7029 AUD ($5,119.22 USD)
12" over bed
7" over cross slide
3.5" compound travel
36" between centers
1.5" bore
1034 lbs
2hp 70-1400rpm single phase
threading dial
2 axis dro with absolute scales
gear box requires manually removed change gears to switch between metric and imperial, additionally metric threading range is spread over 3 separate change gear configurations

B) Centre Lathe D1-4 camlock $10879 AUD ($7,923.18 USD)
14" over bed
9" over cross slide
4" compound travel
39" between centers
1.5" bore
1543 lbs
2hp 82-2000rpm single phase
threading dial
2 axis dro with absolute scales
gear box requires manually removed change gears to switch between metric and imperial, all metric threading range is on a single change gear configuration

There is a separate $869 AUD ($631.89 USD) 12" taper turning attachment available for both so compound travel is not required for tapers.

And, both are the same when left configured for imperial threading, all available at once through the gear box knobs.

Click to expand...

While everyone in the US seems to know that only real American iron is the best the rest of the world has to run their industry on the dregs of what is imported.

Being based in Oz myself it took me 2yrs to find a decent used machine that wasn't worn out and was a fair price.

Woodstove have a look at this link Used and New Engineering Machinery, Used Engineering Machinery, Industrial Machinery | MSS Worldwide Machinery, Sydney. For others it may be a good opportunity to see what things are worth in the used market over here. There is a Colchester triumph about half way down that looks pretty tidy from the photos, is in your budget and may be a heavier built unit than the Asian options your considering. I bought a master 2500 which is the next size down and I'm very happy with the quality and function of it for a 40yr old machine it feels a lot better to use than a new Asian options. Apparently the smaller master was about $20k Aus back in the 80s so that unit wouldn't have been a cheap toy. I considered the one in the link but it's a bit big for my needs. Parts are expensive but they are available.

I have zero affiliation with the distributor and it could be clapped out but the photos look pretty decent so may be worth a look. I did buy some levers from him for my machine and seemed ok to deal with.