Automatic lathe tooling
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  1. #1
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    Default Automatic lathe tooling

    automatic-gasket-lathe.jpgautomatic-gasket-lathe.jpgautomatic-gasket-lathe.jpg
    Is anyone here familiar with machines of this type? I want to design tooling to manufacture products, thin wall precision plastic profiled gaskets.
    The machine in the image is a fairly simple automatic lathe with tools driven by air cylinders.
    I could not download a video, but will be happy to do so if someone is familiar with the way the machine operates. I can also provide a sample part drawing.
    I have seen this machine in operation. For what it produces, it is a very efficient machine, also fairly inexpensive.
    I would appreciate input from people who are familiar with similar machines.

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    I would rethink that machine unless it's a copy of a popular one.

    If it's an automatic you need (and not a full blown C.N.C.)
    I would pick a popular one that is still supported Like:
    1. Brown & Sharp
    2. Warner & Swasey
    3. National Acme (gridley)
    4. Wickman
    5. Davenport
    6. Hardinge

    All of these have tooling suppliers that keep them running, and sell replacement
    parts as well.

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    This is a fairly small lathe, it is almost like a swiss screw machine, it is capable of running a number of tools, mounted on slides. This machine can run at speeds I need to machine plastics, and comes with gravity bar feed. I can buy for about $5000 new, and it very simple machine to operate. But I need to someone who's familiar with tool design for this type of machines, how they work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by semionb View Post
    This is a fairly small lathe, it is almost like a swiss screw machine, it is capable of running a number of tools, mounted on slides. This machine can run at speeds I need to machine plastics, and comes with gravity bar feed. I can buy for about $5000 new, and it very simple machine to operate. But I need to someone who's familiar with tool design for this type of machines, how they work.
    You still haven't provided a company name, website or any other information.

    Let's see a close up of how the tooling is supposed to mount.

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    I haven't provided any name because it is a Chinese machine. What matters is the way this machine operates, for which I can send you a video. These types of machines are made by adding automation to a basic lathe. The parts of the lathe in green are what comes on the machine originally, from the lathe manufacturer. Then the blue stuff is added on. If you want to see the machine in operation, please provide your email and I'll forward you the video. You can pm me. I've seen these types of machines in operation. It is much faster than a cnc lathe, and the way it operates is what I am looking for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by semionb View Post
    I haven't provided any name because it is a Chinese machine. What matters is the way this machine operates, for which I can send you a video. These types of machines are made by adding automation to a basic lathe. The parts of the lathe in green are what comes on the machine originally, from the lathe manufacturer. Then the blue stuff is added on. If you want to see the machine in operation, please provide your email and I'll forward you the video. You can pm me. I've seen these types of machines in operation. It is much faster than a cnc lathe, and the way it operates is what I am looking for.
    This is nothing new, Hardinge made one very similar.

    Now if you would please provide some pictures of HOW THE %$#@! TOOLING MOUNTS.

    I would be happy to help you.

    Barring that, I'm done here.

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    digger doug,
    I can't post a video here, I can only use a youtube link which I don't have, practical machinist is not letting me do it. I keep telling you, I can send you a video of how the machine operates, that will give you a good idea of how tooling is mounted. Other than that I can't give you any more info.

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    what's the question?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wippin' boy View Post
    what's the question?
    The question is how to design tools to manufacture specific parts using this typeof machine. I believe this type of machine can machine both sides of the parts at the same time, sort of like pinch machining. In my case the material is quite soft, these parts have profiles. So tool design is critical.

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    I worked for a fellow that had 3 multiple spindle screw machines. He had 2 small second op Hardinges with what he called "air motors". The air motors were air over hydraulic. The air provided the push, when it contacted the hydraulics the cutting feed was realized. The point where the cutting started was adjustable as well as the controlled feed rate. The motors auto retracted at the end of the cycle. He used a form tool in a roller support tool along with a internal debur tool. It was fast as we loaded parts with the spindle turning, hit the go button with the back of our hands as we were pulling our hand out from loading the part. Cost of operation was the spindle motor and air, since the cylinders were relatively small that was minimal also. Speed was super as you set down the finished part and grabbed another during the cycle, so you were ready to swap them when the slide retracted.
    Jump to today we use a couple of Omniturns for most of our production turning, they have low costs also, spindle and electric for the attachment. The electric for the attachment is probably less than the "air motors".
    One of the very smart things Omniturn did was make the slide capable of using Hardinge HC and CHNC tool holders.
    From the photos I can not tell what style tooling will be used. If they also were smart and it is Hardinge compatible, those lathes will be simple to tool.
    You have not shown samples of the gaskets, if they are straight turning examples with square shoulders simple turning tools can work. If you have angles and radii then you will need ground form tools, not impossible but more complicated.
    A video would help be cause we could see what kind of tool holders are needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FredC View Post
    I worked for a fellow that had 3 multiple spindle screw machines. He had 2 small second op Hardinges with what he called "air motors". The air motors were air over hydraulic. The air provided the push, when it contacted the hydraulics the cutting feed was realized. The point where the cutting started was adjustable as well as the controlled feed rate. The motors auto retracted at the end of the cycle. He used a form tool in a roller support tool along with a internal debur tool. It was fast as we loaded parts with the spindle turning, hit the go button with the back of our hands as we were pulling our hand out from loading the part. Cost of operation was the spindle motor and air, since the cylinders were relatively small that was minimal also. Speed was super as you set down the finished part and grabbed another during the cycle, so you were ready to swap them when the slide retracted.
    Jump to today we use a couple of Omniturns for most of our production turning, they have low costs also, spindle and electric for the attachment. The electric for the attachment is probably less than the "air motors".
    One of the very smart things Omniturn did was make the slide capable of using Hardinge HC and CHNC tool holders.
    From the photos I can not tell what style tooling will be used. If they also were smart and it is Hardinge compatible, those lathes will be simple to tool.
    You have not shown samples of the gaskets, if they are straight turning examples with square shoulders simple turning tools can work. If you have angles and radii then you will need ground form tools, not impossible but more complicated.
    A video would help be cause we could see what kind of tool holders are needed.
    FredC:
    I would like to post a video here, but I don't believe I can. I am not a frequent user of this site, not well versed in how to do things here. But anyway, these machines have only 1 electric spindle, but they have the ability of accept multiple tools on slides, sort of like second operations lathe. I can email you the video of how the machine operates, but all the tools are pneumatically operated. Please pm me your email address, and I'll forward to you the email of the machine in operation,

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    Quote Originally Posted by semionb View Post
    I believe this type of machine can machine both sides of the parts at the same time, sort of like pinch machining. In my case the material is quite soft, these parts have profiles. So tool design is critical.
    I can not see a second spindle or a tail stock in the photos. We are in the dark as to helping further with out more info. If there are youtube videos, copy the address manually or split the address us so we can put it together.
    It almost looks like the lathe beds have a dovetail, made me think of adding a Omniturn attachment but they do not sell attachments anymore. If you need a tailstock or a second spindle, an Omniturn would not have worked anyway.
    Give us what you have a drawing of the gaskets or photos or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FredC View Post
    I can not see a second spindle or a tail stock in the photos. We are in the dark as to helping further with out more info. If there are youtube videos, copy the address manually or split the address us so we can put it together.
    It almost looks like the lathe beds have a dovetail, made me think of adding a Omniturn attachment but they do not sell attachments anymore. If you need a tailstock or a second spindle, an Omniturn would not have worked anyway.
    Give us what you have a drawing of the gaskets or photos or something.
    No need to for second spindle, there are 2 tools moving along the z axis of the lathe. You can't visualize it without seeing the machine in operation. Is there a way for me to post a video directly to here? Without a link?

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    We need a lot more information including a pic or drawing of the part ..............almost essential on screw machine / auto lathe work.

    To post a link, copy the URL at the top of the screen and paste in your reply.

    There are several guys on this forum who specialise in screw machine / auto lathe tooling, one of whom I know personally, and has probably forgotten more than 99% of the rest of us will ever know, .....but stroke his fur the right way and he's a nice as pie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    We need a lot more information including a pic or drawing of the part ..............almost essential on screw machine / auto lathe work.

    To post a link, copy the URL at the top of the screen and paste in your reply.

    There are several guys on this forum who specialise in screw machine / auto lathe tooling, one of whom I know personally, and has probably forgotten more than 99% of the rest of us will ever know, .....but stroke his fur the right way and he's a nice as pie
    Hi Limy Sami:
    I have no problem posting part drawing here, but I would like for people to see how the machine operates. I have a video of the machine in operation, but I can't post here because I have it on my computer, it is not on the web. Someone gave me the clip.
    So if there is a way to post here, I would definitely do it. Otherwise, if someone wants to see the machine in action, I can email you the clip.nylon-gasket.jpg

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    [QUOTE=semionb;3096938]No need to for second spindle, there are 2 tools moving along the z axis of the lathe. You can't visualize it without seeing the machine in operation. Is there a way for me to post a video directly to here? Without a link?[/QUote

    Dimensions are metric.

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    Semionb did send me an email with a an MP4 video. The lathe does use a draw in collet maybe a little larger than 5C, hard to tell. It uses simple tool holders that can hold multiple tools on center, maybe 14mm tall. The cutoff looks to be special height but a substitute that uses standard inserts could be fabricated. To do simple profiles you can get high speed blanks and grind or wire EDM a profile on them. The blue box is a "sequencer" that fires the individual slides at the proper time,not sure how it is programed. On the video they are using the over head slide as a bar stop the rear slide for cut off and several tools are on the end working slide but can not tell how many are actually cutting. Looks like each slide can only move in one axis, so screwmachine type form tools will be required. On the video each cutting tool appears to be air cooled no provision for cutting fluid. Form tools can heat up plastics if not cooled. Parts on the sample video certainly could be done almost as easily with a cam automatic like a Traub A-25 or A42.
    Have you asked the supplier of the machine to sell it set up for your job?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FredC View Post
    Semionb did send me an email with a an MP4 video. The lathe does use a draw in collet maybe a little larger than 5C, hard to tell. It uses simple tool holders that can hold multiple tools on center, maybe 14mm tall. The cutoff looks to be special height but a substitute that uses standard inserts could be fabricated. To do simple profiles you can get high speed blanks and grind or wire EDM a profile on them. The blue box is a "sequencer" that fires the individual slides at the proper time,not sure how it is programed. On the video they are using the over head slide as a bar stop the rear slide for cut off and several tools are on the end working slide but can not tell how many are actually cutting. Looks like each slide can only move in one axis, so screwmachine type form tools will be required. On the video each cutting tool appears to be air cooled no provision for cutting fluid. Form tools can heat up plastics if not cooled. Parts on the sample video certainly could be done almost as easily with a cam automatic like a Traub A-25 or A42.
    Have you asked the supplier of the machine to sell it set up for your job?
    FredC:
    This machine uses Traub collets. There is not need for cooling fluid, compressed air can be used for cooling. These machine manufactures parts out of plastic pipe, Through hole of the spindle is 45mm.

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    I went back and looked at the video, and it still seems to be a draw in collet. I did not know that Traub uses such now. the Traubs I have use and have seen have push type collets. If you get all the slides in the video, the sequencer/ controller for $5000.00 you could make this work. Those slides and "airmotors" if purchased separately will cost a lot and you will have been better off buying an old screw machine.
    Cutting tools will be very similar for either way.
    You still have not provided a picture or drawing of the finished part so I am not certain it can be done with form tools. I have ben locked out of posting new videos to my Youtube account but will email you a couple of screw machine videos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FredC View Post
    I went back and looked at the video, and it still seems to be a draw in collet. I did not know that Traub uses such now. the Traubs I have use and have seen have push type collets. If you get all the slides in the video, the sequencer/ controller for $5000.00 you could make this work. Those slides and "airmotors" if purchased separately will cost a lot and you will have been better off buying an old screw machine.
    Cutting tools will be very similar for either way.
    You still have not provided a picture or drawing of the finished part so I am not certain it can be done with form tools. I have ben locked out of posting new videos to my Youtube account but will email you a couple of screw machine videos.
    I have provided the drawing, look at #15, I also emailed you a drawing. Thanks again for your attention.


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