Band Saw Blades for Bronze?
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  1. #1
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    Default Band Saw Blades for Bronze?

    Trying to cut 1/2 x 4 954 Bronze currently, and to cut it the 4" way takes a LOT of pressure and still takes forever.
    If this isn't bad enough - apparently we have 3000# of custom pour 913 (?) coming in right behind this stuff, so need to figger this out.

    Am currently running bi-metal.

    I'm guessing that I need to go to a carbide tipped?

    Anyone have any "go to" blades for this app?


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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Was this a fresh blade or had you cut steel with it? Bronze needs a sharp blade. If its abrasive wear, then you may well need a carbide blade.

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    Yeah, if its not a brand new never seen steel or stainless blade don't even bother trying to cut it. That said, every were i have been so long as the blade was new there was never a issue cutting it, but that would almost always have been 660, i know some of the alloys are far tougher and carbide may be the only way to go.

    What TPI on the flat, IMHO you want the coarsest going to even stand a chance at 4" wide.

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    My Brother Tom is an expert on all things abrasive and saw blades. Grinding wheels, abrasive belts and discs, and other specialty tools from Blue Ribbon Abrasives
    He should be able to help you over the phone. He has a 800 # too.

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    954 is a weird one- its 4% iron 2% nickel, and 11 % aluminum. I havent used it, but anytime an alloy has nickel in it, its pretty hard.
    here is an old thread with a bunch of guys who are pretty familiar with it.
    Machining 954 Aluminum bronze material

    my guess is you need to slow down the saw, and use coolant, and brand new bimetal blades, but 4" wide cuts are still gonna be somewhat slow to cut. I would expect cut times to be between steel and stainless, not anything like copper or aluminum.

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    Well - yeah, the blade aint new...

    It's a 4/6 variable.

    I could start with a new blade, but how long does it stay new?
    I've got quite a few cuts to make.
    Are you expecting it to stay good for some time?


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    I was never told the alloy number, but I had to turn, drill and tap a bunch of aluminum bronze investment castings about 35 years ago. I did find carbide was the way to go for the turning. Of course the 1/16 NPT hole was done with HS drill and tap, with Tapmatic fluid.

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Well - yeah, the blade aint new...

    It's a 4/6 variable.

    I could start with a new blade, but how long does it stay new?
    I've got quite a few cuts to make.
    Are you expecting it to stay good for some time?


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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Ox
    I use a 3/4 varible pitch blade. by saw might not use the same thicknes or width so I dont know if that makes a difference. 12 foot long blade(un welded) 1" wide 75 IPM
    alum nickle bronze( dont remember exact spec but it had a higher nickle content) about 5000+lbs used 2 blades(one was worn) that being said I was running 2.750 round bar stock , parts cut off to around 3+ inchs long.

    only reason I remember it from so long ago was that I bought 5 blades for the job


    edit oh yeah bi metal blade

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    I cut a lot of softer cast bronze and aluminium and just buy cheap 10 TPI carbon steel blades and replace often, running the saw on the slower speeds with a bit of beeswax lube. There's no point running bimetal blades when you can buy carbon steel ones cheaper and replace as they get blunt.

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    ^ My experiance, a carbon blade costs only half what a bimetal does over here, the bimetal goes far further than twice as long in std mild steel. Add in no change over time and IME in steel carbon blades actually cost more.

    Never ran a carbide one to see if that makes economic sense over bimetal, but im sure in some materials it probaly does.

    Ox, yeah my experiance the teeth kinda wear differently in bronze and sure eventually they just skid and not cut, but it is a fair old while. Even then the blade will still cut smaller steel just fine too, so its kinda akin to using say 50%+ of the blades life on the bronze job then finish thoes blades up on something nicer to cut!

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    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    ^ My experiance, a carbon blade costs only half what a bimetal does over here, the bimetal goes far further than twice as long in std mild steel. Add in no change over time and IME in steel carbon blades actually cost more.

    Never ran a carbide one to see if that makes economic sense over bimetal, but im sure in some materials it probaly does.

    Ox, yeah my experiance the teeth kinda wear differently in bronze and sure eventually they just skid and not cut, but it is a fair old while. Even then the blade will still cut smaller steel just fine too, so its kinda akin to using say 50%+ of the blades life on the bronze job then finish thoes blades up on something nicer to cut!
    I should qualify what I said in an earlier post: I'm also cutting aluminium-silicon castings that are quite abrasive and no mild steel at all, the bandsaw blade people suggested carbon steel as the most cost effective blade. To me the bimetal blades seem to go blunt just as fast in cast aluminium but then I'm not using flood coolant either.

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    bronze does not chip, it gets long strings that tend to bind the blade. Need a coarser than steel blade to force string into gullet. I would go 3/4 on 4 inch, slow speed to 200 and feed at 1 to 1.25 ipm to start. Going in at steel speeds will force strings into blade back and then the sets will not engage and cut, just abrade it. You can also peck saw it at respectable rates, but that is brave catching the timing right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SAG 180 View Post
    Ialuminium-silicon castings
    Sounds like you need PCD, high silicone is nasty, not sure any one does pcd bandsaw blades though?

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    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    Sounds like you need PCD, high silicone is nasty, not sure any one does pcd bandsaw blades though?
    It's just one of those mongrel materials, I'm not sure the exact alloy used but you can see fine fern-like crystals of silicon in the aluminium. The guy who does the casting tells me he's asked a drill and tap manufacturer about any suitable common coatings and they said to just use high speed steel and replace more often (using a drill press and tapping head) . I'm running a 1980's 21" Startrite bandsaw with a variable speed transmission at lower speeds with some feed pressure in an effort to remove more material per tooth and it helps with blade life.

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    I was reluctant to post as I am not a production metal shop but I keep carbide LENOX Tri-Masters on my band saws.
    I end up tossing everything at them including various bronzes and they last.
    Fast cutting too- I never particularly need to bear down to cut.
    I would try one- I think I am paying about $180 for a 15’ blade.

    LENOX Tri-Master(R) Carbide Band Saw Blades

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    I have a repeat job that I run a few times a year out of 3/8" x 2.5" 954 bronze, and a new 4-6 Bi-metal blade seems to work just fine. In think for 4" you will probably want a courser pitch like a 3-4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    I was reluctant to post as I am not a production metal shop but I keep carbide LENOX Tri-Masters on my band saws.
    I end up tossing everything at them including various bronzes and they last.
    Fast cutting too- I never particularly need to bear down to cut.
    I would try one- I think I am paying about $180 for a 15’ blade.

    LENOX Tri-Master(R) Carbide Band Saw Blades

    Well I Shirley don't know why you wouldn't have posted ???

    Where are you finding that blade for that price?


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    Well - I hate to be a unreliable source of information.

    For instance- a typo....

    My saw takes 115” not 15’ and here is where I have been buying.
    Good shop- set me right one time I had a problem with blades:

    https://www.bandsawbladesdirect.com/...oothFinder=191

    15’ from that shop is $280

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    That sounds more better on the price.
    I checked the MSC website just to get what I know to be an inflated price and see what's available, and they only carried the Lennox in that type too.

    Mine is 14' 6".

    My normal source is checking on a Starret equiv.

    Thanks for the reply.



    Edit:

    It looks like Starrett is sending out a 3-4 carbide tipped on trial.



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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    What width blade does your saw require? I could make you a great deal on some 1 1/2" blades.


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