BARBER COLMAN lathes... anyone have one? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Bill that is why I said "Reeves like"

    The mechanics are the same in that cones vary in separation distance which change the ratio of the belt.
    Belt material, cone grooves etc notwithstanding....
    Minor nit in that Reeves varidrive are continuous, "stepless' pitchline critters whilst PIV are stepless as to the adjustment of the ratio, but not stepless as to actual power transmission at any given ratio. Power transfer is incremental, has closer similarity to Gilmer toothed belts as to "cogging".

    Consider a PIV a variable gear rather than a variable belt, in a manner of speaking. An inertial transducer's waveform would demonstrate the difference.

    So technically, they are not the same. VariDrive is VariDrive, PIV is PIV.
    Not that it matters.

    ..I am on the look out for a set of cones and a belt as spares.
    I will probably toss it in before I need any of it..

    I did tear the drive completely down, flushed out the debris and changed the shaft bearings on the shell of the drive when I rebuilt the lathe so I share your appreciation for what a nicely designed bit of kit it is.
    The truly paranoid don't stash spare parts. They stash a complete drive unit!
    I've seen a few on ebay.

    But if your one is no more noisy than the day I heard it?
    I'd guess it has about another 100 years left in it at your rate of use.



    Once I found out how readily available parts and service were and that there hadn't been all that many changes or revisions in nearly a hundred years?
    (they can "make up" the belts when ordered).

    I ceased even worrying about it.

    Parts were dear, but even so, much less that I expected.

    Send them your unit's dataplate info and ask.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    The only thing that makes me sweat is the oddball L-B drive and finding a belt for it should it ever give out..
    When I restored my PIV I found a chain on ebay for under $100. Just keep an eye out. If it's too long, you can shorten it. Length is the "30" in "1-30".

    The bigger problem will be when the toothed sheaves wear out.

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  4. #23
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    Thanks for that- I will keep an eye out.
    As thermic suggests these are robust units and mine sees fairly intermittent use so perhaps I am good to go for quite some time.

    To the OP- the Hendey is a very nice lathe- Given Barber Coleman seems to have continued the product line to the same standard I wouldn't hesitate picking one up.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Thanks for that- I will keep an eye out.
    As thermic suggests these are robust units and mine sees fairly intermittent use so perhaps I am good to go for quite some time.
    Just get a quote for the parts.

    Then decide if you want to stock spares.

    If nothing else? It could make the machine easier to sell at some future date - you OR your "Estate" - by reducing uncertainty for the NEXT owner.

    That's why each of my two 10EE has a spare large-frame Reliance DC motor that will go with it.

    Closest brand-new ones are right around twelve thousand US$ MSRP from ABB/Baldor/Reliance. Look it up.

    Even a modern Sundstrand is cheaper!

    PIV drive costs are actually not bad at all!

    Only the really poor folks have to downgrade to "VFD."

  6. #25
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    termite you piece of shit trashed the Monarch forum beyond repair with your stupid ass cheap drive conversion shit, and you never had a working ee, Yes maybe you have two busted down pieces of crap round dial machines, and some import machine you have never got going either.
    You are a fucking troll with zero experience, and a stalker troll that is out of control.
    This is how it is little man, you called me a drug addict, a criminal, and you indicated you are law enforcement, and many other things here.
    One thing I am sure of, you are really 300lbs of spoiled hamburger sitting in front of a computer.
    Step it up termite1 you are closing in on the 20000 mile stone "again" of your bull shit post, after quoting someone else.
    Never a thought of posting something of your own, or a photo, Why is that termite?
    Like I said, better ditch the termite handle and use one of you other forum IDs, Got that Rooster Fish?

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  8. #26
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    Damn it Donie, how have you not been banned already? You ruin every f'ing thread with this BS.

  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwearing View Post
    Damn it Donie, how have you not been banned already? You ruin every f'ing thread with this BS.
    I disagree.

    For when no matter the thread subject or topic, the same contributor has used, rebuilt, designed, improved, flown, sailed, ridden, driven, smoked, drank, fished, shot and fucked it ***, ... all without ever being wrong! I get more than a tad pissed off.

    P.S. *** please let me know if I've omitted any more feats.

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    Well Limey, he sure dosn't know how a LinkBelt PIV works. The pins in the chain do not fit in the grooves.They merely connect the links together. The leaves slide back and forth into the grooves. THAT IS WHY THE SHEEVS ARE SOLD IN MATCHED PAIRS .The male portion on one sheev must line up with the female of the opposing one.If they are not matched sets they will bind up. They do not "cog" like a Gilmer belt. They are as seamless as a belt drive Reeves.If they "cog" then they are not assembled correctly/misaligned.
    Trboatworks the design of the original chain is no longer made. The replacement chain is slightly narrower but works the same. I don't recall offhand the supplier but there is an import chain available that is about a third the cost of the oe one.

    We had about 30/40 units at one time here but are down to 2 or 3 now. Everything has gone to VFD.

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  13. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    I disagree.

    For when no matter the thread subject or topic, the same contributor has used, rebuilt, designed, improved, flown, sailed, ridden, driven, smoked, drank, fished, shot and fucked it ***, ... all without ever being wrong! I get more than a tad pissed off.

    P.S. *** please let me know if I've omitted any more feats.
    Probably at least a few ...



    But why would acheivers of *any* sort- and PM has a LOT of them, BTW - care about the butt-hurt of UNDER acheivers Hell-bent on gathering the warm cloak of the approval of OTHER underacheivers as a consolation prize?

    "Run what you got!"

    Do the best you can do. Be proud of what YOU did.

    Trying to tear the OTHER guy down out of petty jealousy?

    Look what it gets you. Ass kissed. By other underachievers.

    Enjoy that, too...if that is all you have in you.

    No skin off MY ass...

  14. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratbldr427 View Post
    Well Limey, he sure dosn't know how a LinkBelt PIV works. The pins in the chain do not fit in the grooves.They merely connect the links together. The leaves slide back and forth into the grooves.
    "Cog" in other words.

    Do the easy thing.

    Simply LISTEN to a PIV. A roller chain. A Morse rocker-link "silent" (not quite it is not..). A Gilmer belt. A gearbox, helical or straight cut either one..

    What you hear is the "cogging" as each set of players hands-off to the next.

    Good system, PIV? Surely it can be.

    BUT... the links are NEITHER OF seamless nor continuous as a Reeves belt is.

    That's why your eye can tell one from the next. And CALL them "links".



    And even then, whilst Reeves & varidrive cousins "most-often" have notches in the short side? That has another rationale, but still .

    .. their power conveying tension member on the pitch line is continuous and homogenous. Seamless, even.. when practical. Their pitch line is a section of a circle. Not of a polygon.

    Do PIV links BEND to form a section of perfect circle?
    Or do they merely slide to approximate one as sections of a polygon?

    See also Gilmer or Pirelli pattern belt. A vee belt. A PolyVee or MicroVee. A flat belt.

    How d'you count the links on a continuous belt? How seamlesss can a belt with links really be?

    "Synchronous" belts have "teeth" one can count. They mate with wheels with geometries driven by calculations akin to gears.

    They engage. They dis-engage.

    PIV's links engage. They disengage.

    It is an imperfect process.

    That's "cogging".

    If any "incremental" power transmission mechanism did NOT "cog"? It would not make it's own characteristic "cyclic" sound.

    That simple. Really. It is.

    "Incremental" thing. y'see. "Links" even. With cross-pins connecting them. Or they'd "MERELY" ..... be a loose pile of scrap metal stampings down in the sump, yah?.



    "With all thy getting, get thee understanding!"

    B.C. Forbes.

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    Thermite, should you acquire a third account, consider "the Baron Munchausen of Machinists" as your new screenname.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ratbldr427 View Post
    Trboatworks the design of the original chain is no longer made. The replacement chain is slightly narrower but works the same. I don't recall offhand the supplier but there is an import chain available that is about a third the cost of the oe one.

    We had about 30/40 units at one time here but are down to 2 or 3 now. Everything has gone to VFD.
    Thank you for that.
    It might be I will take a closer look at this- loosing the parts in that drive would be a pain to develop a work around for.
    As it stands the machine setup is vey good and I would like to keep as is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cranium View Post
    Thermite, should you acquire a third account, consider "the Baron Munchausen of Machinists" as your new screenname.
    Why would I?

    Metalworking isn't even five percent of my life or interests. I'm here to learn from folks who know MORE than I know. Not less.

    Fortunately, there are rather a lot of them. Interesting folks.

    Even if not always the ones who THINK they are!

    I'm good with both sides of that equation.

    "Run what you GOT!"

    Not what you only WISH you had!


  18. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Probably at least a few ...



    But why would acheivers of *any* sort- and PM has a LOT of them, BTW - care about the butt-hurt of UNDER acheivers Hell-bent on gathering the warm cloak of the approval of OTHER underacheivers as a consolation prize?

    "Run what you got!"

    Do the best you can do. Be proud of what YOU did.

    Trying to tear the OTHER guy down out of petty jealousy?

    Look what it gets you. Ass kissed. By other underachievers.

    Enjoy that, too...if that is all you have in you.

    No skin off MY ass...
    Why do you think / assume I was referring to you?
    Last edited by Limy Sami; 05-10-2021 at 04:56 AM. Reason: added assume

  19. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Thank you for that.
    It might be I will take a closer look at this- loosing the parts in that drive would be a pain to develop a work around for.
    As it stands the machine setup is vey good and I would like to keep as is.
    No need to guess. Just call the service outfit on the phone and find out what your specific situation is.

    I called these guys: "AC Compacting":

    PIV Drives | AC Compacting Equipment – Authorized Service Center for PIV Drives & Chains | 732-249-6900

    Note they list "FMC Link Belt" FMC had been "Food Machinery Corporation", owned Galis when i was there. Our mining machines and not-only, but their biggest product early 1960's was US Army M113 Armoured vehicles.



    ACH were helpful on my 1950's one.

    You do boatworky stuff. They do PIV and other drive stuff.

    Call is cheap.

  20. #36
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    The first PIVs had wooden block chains.We had one on the register system on an old Mercury cutter when I started here.We changed it over to a steel belt. It was a monster about 4ft tall. The biggest problem during a rebuild is over tightening the chain. It will bind up and become hard to turn.

    The later models with the square edged aluminum case mostly had automatic adjusters for the chain and they can overtighten by themselves when damaged and lock up. When properly set up they don't make noise and are very smooth regardless of what thermite says.

    I have probably overhauled 20 or more of them and it obvious to me thermite has never been into one... or he might have that would explain why he thinks they should all be noisy and cog! Another name that they were sold under was Rexnard and I think TRW was affiliated with them at one time.

  21. #37
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    To get back to the poster’s original quest, (assuming the lathe in question is B/C Tool & Gagmakers lathe) there is another consideration. Hendeyman has many prints available for this machine and may also a few repair parts. I re-conditioned my T&G with his personal assistance and the prints. I acquired a partial taper attachment form forum member Shapeaholic and from Hendeyman’s prints manufactured the missing components. Again with major input from Shapeaholic , I completed the optional “follower rest” from the prints. Lastly the prints allowed me to construct the optional “auto stop”. So even though the machine may seem a “disaster”, some TLC combined with the prints could get it to operate superbly.


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