basic VMC tooling wish list

sigmatero · Nov 1, 2018

For my prototyping and low volume production business I have manual mills and lathes and CNC routers and have now added a Sharp SV-2412 VMC for doing mostly aluminum parts. Not super fast but a good workhorse.

Can some of you with experience give me a basic "wish list" of Cat-40 tooling I'll need? I have HSS tooling for my manual stuff but want to focus on all carbide tooling with inserts for the VMC.

Suggestions for a good mix of about 20 different toolholders and favorite tools? (favorite combos of end mill holders, ER chucks, drill chucks, mill cutters, etc)

Basically, "if I had to do it again from scratch here's what I would buy for basic tooling"...

Or point me to a reasonable list online from someone that has done just this thing with a similar size machine?

Thanks folks.

Finegrain · Nov 1, 2018

0 drill chucks
bunch of the shortest ERxx holders you can find
couple XL ERxx holders
couple smaller ER (like 16 if your main ones are 32) holders to sneak into little pockets
a few endmill holders
a couple facemills, one for Al and one for steel

For a start ...

Regards.

Mike

Bobw · Nov 1, 2018

It really depends on what you need to run... Are you doing tiny little valve bodies with
tons of different reamed and tapped small holes.. In that case, you need a lot of small
collet holders.

Look at the first 3 jobs you are going to run, and figure out what you NEED.. Then think
of the normal stuff you will be running, and make a tool list... And from that a tool holder
list... Buy that list...

Off the top of my head, my first CAT40 tool holder order was.

4 ER16's and 2 sets of collets.
2 ER32's and 1 set of collets.
2 ER40's and 1 set of collets.

(quick break... I got ER32's because I also got an ER32 T/C tap holder, because I
needed to hold taps that big, I also got ER40 because I needed to hold drills up
to an inch).

Set Screw holders.

2 3/8 regular length, 1 longer.
3 1/2" regular length, 1 longer.
1 5/8"
2 3/4"
1 1".

1 CAT40 drill chuck, which is just about F'n useless.

ER32 straight shank T/C holder
er16 straight shank T/C holder.

And some other straight shank stuff, because I had a lathe coming.

That was my first order of tool holders.... Maritool..

I added some facemills from Curtis shortly after...

That was over 10 years ago, and a lot of those tool holders are still running today...

Ianagos · Nov 1, 2018

I would get about

8x er16 cat 40 holders short
2x er16 cat40 long gauge length
8x er32 cat 40 holders
2x er32 long gauge length

1x 1/4 endmill holder
2x 3/8 endmill holder
2x 1/2 endmill holder
1x 5/8 endmill holder
1x3/4 endmill holder
1x 1” endmill holder

1 full set of er 16 collets
2 sets of er16 common sizes

1 full set of er 32 collets
2sets of er 32 common sizes

1 cat 40 drill chuck

2x facemill holders

1x 3” 45degree facemill aluminum inserts
1x 2” 90 degree face mill

1x 2” boring head with cat 40 shank

That’s a basic list of stuff I would be ok with starting out.

sigmatero · Nov 1, 2018

Thanks for all the advice, this gives me a good start for researching options.

Religion question... recommendation for good, basic, common and standard carbide style for facemills for aluminum? For example APKT (90 deg) and SEHT (45 deg).

Finegrain · Nov 1, 2018

sigmatero said:
Thanks for all the advice, this gives me a good start for researching options.

Religion question... recommendation for good, basic, common and standard carbide style for facemills for aluminum? For example APKT (90 deg) and SEHT (45 deg).

I've been very happy with Maritool SEHT 45* facemills. Someday II'll get a high-zoot adjustable pocket facemill.

Regards.

Mike

Ianagos · Nov 2, 2018

sigmatero said:
Thanks for all the advice, this gives me a good start for researching options.

Religion question... recommendation for good, basic, common and standard carbide style for facemills for aluminum? For example APKT (90 deg) and SEHT (45 deg).

Just get the stuff they offer at maritool.

CatMan · Nov 2, 2018

T01 PROBE

always

J Gilles · Nov 2, 2018

sigmatero said:
Thanks for all the advice, this gives me a good start for researching options.

Religion question... recommendation for good, basic, common and standard carbide style for facemills for aluminum? For example APKT (90 deg) and SEHT (45 deg).

I was happy with the 2" 90 deg rectangular insert facemill from Maritool. It would very well for facing and shouldering aluminum, even on a 4000 rpm machine. I have heard good things about the 45 degree models from both Maritool and Curits @ latheinserts.com.

Rstewart · Nov 2, 2018

When you buy ER collets, the sets are nice, but get plenty of the Nominal sizes.

(5) 1/8"
(5) 1/4"
(5) 3/8"
(5) 1/2"

If you don't have probe, get a 3D "taster"

Get some sort of boring set-up with the appropriate taper for your machine.

I like Mari-tool and Pioneer Tool

fmari --MariTool- · Nov 2, 2018

Yes, great info here.

A few collet sets are very handy, but get plenty of the common sizes. Not unusual for one program to use 6 1/4" or 1/2" collets.
ER collet chucks are the best bang for your buck. Hold endmills, drills, taps, countersinks, threadmills, etc.
Endmill holder are super handy for roughing and dedicated edge finders or probes.
Don't worry about specific tap collets. Unless you are tapping a really coarse thread in alloy steel a standard ER collet will have no problem driving a tap just by clamping on the shank.

Good luck and dont be afraid to ask questions...

Ianagos · Nov 2, 2018

Forgot to mention 3d taster if you don’t have a probe. Once you get one and get it nicely calibrated there is no going back.

Bobw · Nov 2, 2018

And don't cheap out on the pullstuds.

adama · Nov 2, 2018

If you think a square insert face mill is good, try a SEHT type 45 degree one, based on how hard mine can eat metal on a Bridgeport im willing to be you can't feed it hard enough on that sharp. That 45 degree lead angle is awesome for stability in the cut.

Ianagos · Nov 2, 2018

Shars has good solid pull studs for 10 for $50 on eBay. They are better made than other brands I have used and reasonably priced.

Edit also those seht face mills will shred aluminum as Adama says. My mill is pretty weak (Fadal vmc15) and I take .2in doc full woc at 150ipm on my 80mm face mill.

Finegrain · Nov 2, 2018

Ianagos said:
Shars has good solid pull studs for 10 for $50 on eBay. They are better made than other brands I have used and reasonably priced.

Given the potential cost of a broken pullstud -- ruined spindle -- I cannot see how choosing a $5 Shars pullstud is a wise choice.

I am just now replacing some of my high-duty toolholder pullstuds with Maritool's high-torque ones, and they are clearly better. Finely ground engagement surfaces, generous fillets, etc.

Regards.

Mike

Ianagos · Nov 2, 2018

Finegrain said:
Given the potential cost of a broken pullstud -- ruined spindle -- I cannot see how choosing a $5 Shars pullstud is a wise choice.

I am just now replacing some of my high-duty toolholder pullstuds with Maritool's high-torque ones, and they are clearly better. Finely ground engagement surfaces, generous fillets, etc.

Regards.

Mike

I had some other brands like fitz rites and the shars were clearly better. Not all shars stuff is low quality. But maritool ones will probably be better.

I should add that I do not recommend low quality pullstuds available anywhere on eBay. Also my experience with the shars pullstuds are in the Fadal style studs.

sigmatero · Nov 14, 2018

As an update... pulled the trigger and ordered an Orange Vise. Spent a month looking at bunches of options including used and the reasonable $699 price, reasonable shipping charge, US made, and modern features of the Orange single-station sold me over any other brand. I have a hunch at this price they'll sell a bunch of these vises and other companies will follow their lead with modular design features that are set up for Mitee Bites and use with pallets.

Now I'm looking for something similar with a set of Cat40 toolholders. Good quality, reasonable price, preferably made in the US. Suggestion on bang-for-the-buck brand of toolholders?

BTW, as an aside, I watched NY CNC's video on the Orange Vise shop tour and they're set up with all modern equipment that does high-speed machining and have a very modern approach to manufacturing. So I think Titan has it right- if American manufacturers use the latest equipment <robots> and are willing to be smart and aggressive then the US can definitely compete with China/Taiwan. I have six kids that we homeschool and I'm teaching them as much 3d modeling, 3d printing, CNC programming, Lego Mindstorms, Arduinos, etc. as fast as I can because that's where the good jobs will be for their generation. But I digress... back to toolholder choice...

J Gilles · Nov 14, 2018

This is exactly what you described and what 90% of the people here will recommend. Frank is the owner and he is a very active member on here. (He posted right up there /\) Great tools at reasonable prices. The customer service is unparalleled as well.

Tool Holders, Collets and Machine Accessories - MariTool

On a different note, where are you at in Idaho?

Finegrain · Nov 14, 2018

sigmatero said:
... set up for Mitee Bites ...

Don't fret on that too much, these are quite easy to make:

Regards.

Mike

basic VMC tooling wish list

Aluminum

Diamond

Diamond

Stainless

Aluminum

Diamond

Stainless

Hot Rolled

Cast Iron

Stainless

Titanium

Stainless

Diamond

Diamond

Stainless

Diamond

Stainless

Aluminum

Cast Iron

Diamond

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