Bearings: 6205 vs. New Departure 88505?

Disaster Area · Apr 17, 2008

Is a (SKF) 6205 (double shielded) an acceptable replacement for a New Departure 88505?

Is a 6205 a good replacement (or supercedes) a 88505?

It appears that they are almost identical, the difference being the width of the inner bore of the bearing (88505 is .591" = 15.0114 mm, vs 6205 which is 15 mm).

The application is 6 bearings on a shaft running at about 2,000 rpm (maybe less) in a lathe (a component part of a "twin disc clutch"). It was installed in 1940 (more or less). This is the 88505 (beneath the sleeve):

http://s64.photobucket.com/albums/h186/Disasterarea_photos/Hendey%209%20x%2018%20Lathe/Twin%20disk%20clutch%20Co/?action=view&current=IMG_0003.jpg

Is this (88505) an archaic bearing?

tia

abarnsley · Apr 17, 2008

Why are you not asking Hendeyman?

He has parts drawings, info, and seems to be getting ignored...

machtool · Apr 17, 2008

Isn’t your 0.591” just a conversion / rounding thing. 15mm would be 0.59055”, so they have rounded up to 0.591”.

That’s a metric numbering system to end with 05. To have a 25 mm bore. I cant imagine any one making a 0.591” width bearing. Its not Metric or Imperial.

Regards Phil.

Dave A · Apr 17, 2008

check with a bearing house for x-ref

Sold a lot of New Departure bearings back in the day, but time has erased the recall of specifics. Found this site that gave some basic info on New Departure/Hyatt bearing nomenclature.

http://www.ahrinternational.com/HYATT-BALL-BEARINGS_nomenclature.shtml

Appears the ND 88505 is as follows:

88 stands for double sealed with labyrinth felt seals
505 is the basic bearing number

Seems to be nothing special about the bearing as far as other special prefixes, or suffixes, so the width of the inner bore should not be critical, if in fact there is actually a difference.

4GSR · Apr 17, 2008

Disaster Area said:
Is a (SKF) 6205 (double shielded) an acceptable replacement for a New Departure 88505?

Is a 6205 a good replacement (or supercedes) a 88505?

It appears that they are almost identical, the difference being the width of the inner bore of the bearing (88505 is .591" = 15.0114 mm, vs 6205 which is 15 mm).

The application is 6 bearings on a shaft running at about 2,000 rpm (maybe less) in a lathe (a component part of a "twin disc clutch"). It was installed in 1940 (more or less). This is the 88505 (beneath the sleeve):

http://s64.photobucket.com/albums/h...k clutch Co/?action=view&current=IMG_0003.jpg

Is this (88505) an archaic bearing?

tia

Disasterarea,

The 6205 you are asking about is not the correct replacement. You need to ask for 88505 as a replacement. The 88505 has a wider inner race than the outer race has. Using a standard 205 bearing may cause spacing problems when you go back together. They should be available at a bearing distributer in your area. Sometimes the local auto house may have these. Either place won't have the NDH brand, it more than likely will be a off brand of some sort.

Ken S.

Dave A · Apr 17, 2008

The application is interesting. Not a press fit on the shaft, so inner race is able to rotate, unless the spacer is designed to side load the inner race (s) to prevent this?

What is the purpose of using a bearing with a slightly wider inner race? Can you achieve the same purpose with spacers between bearings? Do the bearings mount in a back to back configuration where you need some slight separation? So in the final analysis can you use a less expensive bearing with standard dimensions?

ENGINENUT2 · Apr 17, 2008

bearing replacement

Disaster area, My IBI guide shows over 120 matching bearing numbers as the equivalent to the New Departure 88505.Some of the most readily available for me would be: BCA 88505, John Deere JD7158, MRC 88505, SKF 55505, NTN 88505, and Caterpillar 5F525 and 7H3990.I have found several times Cat is less costly on ordinary bearings than the bearing house and they sure know what they have got and availability.Let me know if you need other manuf matches.Good luck.

ENGINENUT2 · Apr 17, 2008

more caterpillar advantages

Around here, I've never been charged for shipping or handling when it was done within their system, they quickly and easily identify replacements for superseded cat numbers.When a dealer is not near, they usually have a spot pretty near where they routinely drop off an order.Most common things are available overnight.I have yet to find a support system that beats Caterpillar.

Disaster Area · Apr 19, 2008

thank you, for all your help, i ended up learning a bit more about bearings from this (the links helped).

the .591" that i used, came from consolidated, i relied upon their data for this figure, which seems to be an approximation of a mm equivalent.

felt seals vs rubber shields:
one supplier (with 20 yrs experience) explained that felt seals are superior to rubber seals. a different supplier described the felt seals as being archaic - the felt was enclosed in the steel shield (this was the only/best technology available at the time, to protect against dust/leakage of oil), and this has been replaced by rubber (plastic) seals.

it appears that (as long as i can make new spacers), the 6205 (double sealed) would work - both protecting against oil leakage onto the clutch plates, and supporting the shaft (not as well, but not much better).

the reason i asked this question, came from high price quotes for the 88505:
1st qt: $40 ea + shipping
2nd qt: $25 ea + shipping (local bearing co in Norwood), would have to ship from their warehouse in the midwest.
this is what prompted me to seek an alternative (less expensive) bearing, that would perform the same function, etc.

after reviewing your suggestions, i was out working on a job & spoke to the customer asking who they (italian car dealer sevice department) got their bearings from. they recomended 'action bearing' in Brighton, quite highly. for example, a bearing shipped from the car manufacturer in italy could cost $1,000, but from action would be $30 (and same manufacturer - SKF). I contacted action, and found they had 200 of the new departures in stock, in Boston (not felt seal - rubber seal), at about $9.50 ea. when i picked them up they charged me less ($6 ea)

! These are 'new departure' bearings:
one is NDH 8505 (made in usa), the other is new departure '05' (also made in usa).

i appreciate everyones assistance, thank you!

lazlo · Apr 19, 2008

Disaster Area said:
felt seals vs rubber shields:

one supplier (with 20 yrs experience) explained that felt seals are superior to rubber seals. a different supplier described the felt seals as being archaic - the felt was enclosed in the steel shield (this was the only/best technology available at the time, to protect against dust/leakage of oil), and this has been replaced by rubber (plastic) seals.

There's a big difference between shields and seals. Bearing shields are just a thin metal foil that crimps to the outer race, and is only intended to reduce contamination by large particles. Shielded bearings typically have a -Z suffix.

Seals (whether felt or rubber) contact both the outer and inner race, so the bearing is completely enclosed. This is a much more effective barrier than a shield, at the cost of increased friction, increased rolling resistance, and decreased maximum speed. Felt seals have lower friction/rolling resistance than rubber seals, but are used primarily as a grit filter with a grease-packed bearing -- the felt is permeable to liquids, including oil. A rubber seal filters everything, but the rubber has to rub against the inner race, so it generates more friction/heat. Rubber sealed bearing typically have a -RS suffix.

Peter from Holland · Apr 19, 2008

Disaster Area; It appears that they are almost identical said:
Disaster Area

6205 has a inner bore of 25mm
6202 has 15mm

Peter

stelradCoal · Mar 16, 2012

old thread resurrection...

just thought I would update, I want to replace the bearings on my Twin Disk clutch that is off my Hendey lathe right now. Did some searching and this thread came up. Just got off the phone with a nice sales person at Action bearing. I ordered 1 ND 88505 and 2 ND 488505 from them, 6.70 on the 88505 and 9.85 on the 48505, which I thought was reasonable. They were willing to ship so I had them do that although I am up in the Boston area about once a month for reserve duty.

Jay

mr.roboto.1975 · Jul 28, 2021

Disaster Area said:
thank you, for all your help, i ended up learning a bit more about bearings from this (the links helped).

the .591" that i used, came from consolidated, i relied upon their data for this figure, which seems to be an approximation of a mm equivalent.

felt seals vs rubber shields:
one supplier (with 20 yrs experience) explained that felt seals are superior to rubber seals. a different supplier described the felt seals as being archaic - the felt was enclosed in the steel shield (this was the only/best technology available at the time, to protect against dust/leakage of oil), and this has been replaced by rubber (plastic) seals.

it appears that (as long as i can make new spacers), the 6205 (double sealed) would work - both protecting against oil leakage onto the clutch plates, and supporting the shaft (not as well, but not much better).

the reason i asked this question, came from high price quotes for the 88505:
1st qt: $40 ea + shipping
2nd qt: $25 ea + shipping (local bearing co in Norwood), would have to ship from their warehouse in the midwest.
this is what prompted me to seek an alternative (less expensive) bearing, that would perform the same function, etc.

after reviewing your suggestions, i was out working on a job & spoke to the customer asking who they (italian car dealer sevice department) got their bearings from. they recomended 'action bearing' in Brighton, quite highly. for example, a bearing shipped from the car manufacturer in italy could cost $1,000, but from action would be $30 (and same manufacturer - SKF). I contacted action, and found they had 200 of the new departures in stock, in Boston (not felt seal - rubber seal), at about $9.50 ea. when i picked them up they charged me less ($6 ea) ! These are 'new departure' bearings:
one is NDH 8505 (made in usa), the other is new departure '05' (also made in usa).

i appreciate everyones assistance, thank you!

NDH never made rubber sealed felt seal bearings (8 is felt seal, 7 is shield, 9 is seal, 4 is snap ring, this applies to single row bearings, double rows use different numbers).

NDH shut down in 1986 and had been on the rocks for a number of years due to Japanese bearings being sold under cost. Their equipment and manufacturing methods had not been updated since the 60's, besides their hub bearing manufacturing of course. Within the last 10 years, they were still making hub bearings for Timken (or Timken had bought their machines) as I had bought GM hub units that were stamped NDH. The Sandusky plant still ran until 2014 bidding work for OEM's and government contracts. They did make ball bearings using what I assume to be left over stock.

If you received "rubber sealed" bearings to felt seal dimensions, they were likely labeled as New Departure, but something else. This is quite common, as NDH is a highly sought brand, but since they have been gone for 35 years, hard to get. General Bearing bought the Hyatt name years ago from GM, which they sold initially Russian bearings, now Chinese tapered roller bearings under.

I deal in surplus bearings, and NDH is my most desirable bearing to buy, because I sell the highest percentage of them (bought) than any other brand.

Cole2534 · Jul 29, 2021

I think he's figured it out in the decade since he asked.

Sent via CNC 88HS

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Bearings: 6205 vs. New Departure 88505?

Disaster Area

Cast Iron

abarnsley

Titanium

machtool

Diamond

Dave A

Titanium

4GSR

Diamond

Dave A

Titanium

ENGINENUT2

Aluminum

ENGINENUT2

Aluminum

Disaster Area

Cast Iron

lazlo

Diamond

Peter from Holland

Diamond

stelradCoal

Aluminum

mr.roboto.1975

Plastic

Cole2534

Diamond

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