Best all-around material for shop-made tools that doesn't require heat treating?

Frigzy · Jan 4, 2019

I often make small tools and fixtures for the shop. Examples are: lathe cutting bit height adjustment tool, chuck faceplate, lathe insert holder, morse taper adapter.

I use random scrap metal as material for those, which is not ideal. Mostly it's 1018 mild steel. It gets scratched/dented easily, it rusts and it just doesn't look professional.

I don't have any heat treating capabilities or precision grinding, nor I want to mess up with those.

What would be the nicest material for projects like this: not very difficult to machine and yet not requiring heat treating? Stainless? Chromoly?

Thanks!

Milland · Jan 4, 2019

For most things, buy what you need, good condition used if possible. Don't make "common" items for yourself, it's a waste of time.

For real custom parts, 4140 prehard in ~30Rc should work. But it's always best to pick a suitable material when all the requirements are know.

tnmgcarbide · Jan 4, 2019

yep, 4140ht , 4340ht are good choices. 17-4 PH stainless works well and machines nicely.

don't forget 2024/7075 aluminum. very strong and tough.

MilGunsmith · Jan 4, 2019

You can use cold blue for guns to protect finish.

PeteM · Jan 4, 2019

Magnetic scrapium, less than file hard, is my material of choice when most anything will do. Followed by a cold blue and oil/wax, as MilGunsmith suggests. Most anything that's not low carbon steel gets the left overs labelled -- most of those labels (e.g. 4130 PH, S7, etc.) still peeking through the surface rust years later . . .

1 Jaw Chuck (Chuck Evans) · Jan 4, 2019

Frigzy,

My favorite is 1144 Stressproof. Tough, machines well and wears well in the shop.

Only downside is that is can't be welded. Tho I might try brazing it someday.

Chuck
Burbank, CA

Frigzy · Jan 4, 2019

Thank you guys!
I will probably order a piece of each of above-mentioned materials in McMaster and will see which one I like best.

PeteM · Jan 4, 2019

Frigzy said:
Thank you guys!
I will probably order a piece of each of above-mentioned materials in McMaster and will see which one I like best.

At one point, years ago, I ordered short 1/2" rods in various steels from McMaster. Kept them to this day, punched with an ID on one end and now somewhat worn down on the other, to use as spark test "standards." Helps judge various bits of scrapium; sometimes getting a bit better use out of something available cheap by the pound.

otrlt · Jan 4, 2019

Hello Frigsy
My best advise to you is to not avoid the heat treat process. If you want your devise to last, you have to heat treat.

If you do not have grinding capability, heat treat 4140 Annealed pieces to 40-46 HRC, drill and tap before HT.

Pre-Heat Treated stock sold by McMaster/ MSC are not hardened sufficiently to suffice.

Frigzy · Jan 4, 2019

otrlt said:
Hello Frigsy
My best advise to you is to not avoid the heat treat process. If you want your devise to last, you have to heat treat.

If you do not have grinding capability, heat treat 4140 Annealed pieces to 40-46 HRC, drill and tap before HT.

Pre-Heat Treated stock sold by McMaster/ MSC are not hardened sufficiently to suffice.

Thanks for the advice!

I don't have a heat-treating furnace (yet) and my biggest concern is potential overheating of the smaller features (threads, teeth etc) with a gas torch making them brittle and unreliable. Also, the entire process becomes much more time-consuming.

BTW: are you suggesting to turn the OD/ID of a part after the heat-treatment or before? How much would the OD/ID change with the heat-treatment?

snowshooze · Jan 4, 2019

You would be surprised how inexpensive heat-treating really is.
Hey, my outfit charges by the ton..... with a heat and quench minimum of $75.00
I have run the pre-hard, and T1... all that.
It doesn't make sense to do so with good support.
Now, if you need to get something right out... go ahead.
But, there are menial options available.
4140, I heat with a torch to the red department, oil-quench, and temper at about 750 using the laser thermometer for the temper heat..
Not exact. And the color red, not bright... aw heck. You have to play with it.

But, I'd rather get me some annealed 4130, machine it without blowing up a bunch of cutters... send it off... 10 days later... done.
Really, if you can afford the time... it is soooo much easier.

Gordon Heaton · Jan 4, 2019

Frigzy said:
. . .How much would the OD/ID change with the heat-treatment?

You might be able to predict size change during HT to within .001, but I wouldn't count on it. Every variable you can think of affects the change, including the steel type, part size and shape. If you need precision after HT there is no substitute for grinding.

Halcohead · Jan 4, 2019

Viscount 44 and ETD150 are both good general prehardened toolsteels. ETD150 is as hard as 4140 prehard, but stronger. Viscount 44 is an easier to machine prehardened type of H13.

Frigzy · Jan 10, 2019

Thank you everybody for the information. I played with all these materials for a few days.

4140HT is becoming my favorite. I love how it machines. It gives this feeling of very high quality, expensive material. My Hardinge HLV-H clone cuts it like butter. 1" bar, 3000 RPM, 0.250" DOC (radius), 0.002" IPR, WNMG 432 = no problems whatsoever.

7075 is also a very nice material - love it (very expensive though).

1144 feels just like a regular mild steel. I couldn't get good finish on it by some reason - I need to play more with it.

Left to right: 7075 (nut & bolt), 4140HT, 1144

Coadster32 · Jan 10, 2019

We've went with many materials in the past, and have settled on 17-4 SS without H/T. Our stuff hardly ever wears out, strong, and cuts without much issue.

Frigzy · Jan 10, 2019

I wish I could afford buying 17-4. I was shocked by its price, at least at McMaster. My entire first lathe was just a little bit more expensive than a single 1" x 3' 17-4 rod.

MCritchley · Jan 10, 2019

Halcohead said:
Viscount 44 and ETD150 are both good general prehardened toolsteels. ETD150 is as hard as 4140 prehard, but stronger. Viscount 44 is an easier to machine prehardened type of H13.

Viscount 44 is one of my favorites,predicable to machine and very tough.

tnmgcarbide · Jan 10, 2019

i can't see how 17-4 is more expensive than any other tool steel. at least cheaper than 7075 aluminum .

1.625" round 17-4 stainless ROD/BAR 8." long Lathe or milling Stock | eBay

adama · Jan 10, 2019

Frigzy said:
Thanks for the advice!

I don't have a heat-treating furnace (yet) and my biggest concern is potential overheating of the smaller features (threads, teeth etc) with a gas torch making them brittle and unreliable. Also, the entire process becomes much more time-consuming.

BTW: are you suggesting to turn the OD/ID of a part after the heat-treatment or before? How much would the OD/ID change with the heat-treatment?

Honestly a small electric kiln and DIY heat treat is pretty dang easy. its the anneal you really need to get right more so the hardening and if you stick with std oil hardening grades of steel it really is kinda hard to go wrong. Think like about as hard as heating up a pre cooked meal just twice over and a couple of times hotter.

Hardening is easy with a propane torch (roofing torch size for the bigger bits, finger size a typical on the gas can plumbing torch is fine for) and some fire bricks too, but its hard to anneal accurately with a torch, thats were something simple with digital control gets you stable results.

Pre hardned materials are great for things like simple shafts, but they kinda suck - just too soft for any real cutting tools with out re-hardening and tempering to a far greater hardness. Equally if you want real precision your also then into grinding territory, again more equipment and more time, but its also oh so usefull.

Comatose · Jan 10, 2019

Unless you're independently wealthy or need something in an emergency, why are you ordering metal from McMaster? That's 3-6 times more expensive than a real supplier.

And I say that knowing we make 3-4 McMaster orders per week here.

Best all-around material for shop-made tools that doesn't require heat treating?

Aluminum

Diamond

Diamond

Stainless

Diamond

Cast Iron

Aluminum

Diamond

otrlt

Guest

Aluminum

Stainless

Titanium

Stainless

Aluminum

Aluminum

Aluminum

Stainless

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

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