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  1. #21
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    I don't like ratcheting pliers for general use. There are plenty of times I want to decide when the crimp is over. With the ratcheting pliers, you need to keep going until the tool decides. I do use ratcheting pliers on specific terminals such as the small pin type connectors used in automotive applications. They even have their own dies. But for the normal barrel type terminals, I like the Kleins.

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    I have never had any problem with uninsulated crimpers but you need decent ones for the insulated terminals. Probably the plastic adds squish that needs a more accurate crimp

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    First, stop using those garbage insulated crimp connectors. They are right behind just twisting wires together for quality.

    I use a two different crimpers for most of my uninsulated terminals. Some Klein Bird beak type and these:
    WEATHER PACK CRIMPING TOOL KIT

    These work well on most types of uninsulated terminals. I have something similar to these for the open barrel types like Packard terminals and others that require closing up around the wire.

    63811-1000 Molex Service Hand Crimp Tool F Type

    Once everything is all crimped, adhesive lined shrink wrap goes on. It supports the wire and keeps it from breaking at the barrel, plus it keeps moisture out of the joint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Gwinn View Post
    I have one of these, bought many years ago, and made by Buchanan, the inventor as I recall. Works very well. But not really for installation of in-line barrel splices. Buchanan still makes these, but far more complicated models intended for production.

    Buchanan's patents have long since expired, and there are many makers of the original design:

    4-Way Crimping Tool AWG 22-10
    So, now I know how those very professional-looking crimps are made. I have come across them occasionally on things like junction-box ground wires. One limitation is that they can not crimp wires that form a line as opposed to a couple or more wires whose ends are brought together in a bunch. But those crimps are the most sure-fire and robust I have seen. I have all of the crimpers shown so far in this thread except this style. I wonder if I'll be able to resist the temptation to buy one. Given the security needed for ground wires, I'm guessing my collection will grow by one. These crimps are just too good to pass up.

    Denis
    Last edited by dgfoster; 09-19-2021 at 05:43 PM.

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    Default Best crimper for uninsulated terminals

    Quote Originally Posted by dgfoster View Post
    So, now I know how those very professional-looking crimps are made. I have come across them occasionally on things like junction-box ground wires. On limitation is that they can not crimp wires that form a line as opposed to a couple or more wires whose ends are brought together in a bunch. But those crimps are the most sure-fire and robust I have seen. I have all of the crimpers shown so far in this thread except this style. I wonder if I'll be able to ressit the temptation to buy one. Given the security needed for ground wires, I'm guessing my collection will grow by one. These crimps are just too good to pass up.

    Denis
    They are known as Buchanan Crimpers. I only know that from my Fundamentals of DC instructor who told us what they were and that it was at the time, the proper way to bond ground conductors once they were twisted together tightly. I bought a pair at that time and use them with the Buchanans for all our house electrical wiring. Makes a very secure bond.Best crimper for uninsulated terminals


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Burndy Y1022 crimper I have been using an earlier version of this tool over 40 yrs extremely handy. Bill

  8. #27
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    That's only a consideration for in-line splices. Even the one sided splices can be simply be approached from the side of the tool.



    Quote Originally Posted by crossthread View Post
    I have never liked the crimpers that have the crimping section between the handles. They require you to pass the handle over the job which can be very frustrating in tight quarters.

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    Insulated terminals are garbage? Really?

    There are many high quality manufacturers who make high quality, insulated terminals. They are a bit Off Topic here, but as others have said, they do require a more precise crimp and a more accurately made crimping tool than the uninsulated ones do. I have seen the problems with them. One, supposedly professional (and high priced) electronic installer I saw using a pair of diagonal cutters to crimp them. He claimed he had the correct pressure "calibrated" in his hands. I tugged lightly on one and it fell apart. But he did not stop and I had to do all of them over after he left.

    And many of the store brand or import crimp tools for these, insulated terminals are no good. But, as I said in my first post above, there are good tools made for the insulated terminals too and they do work well. The secrets include a different style crimp than the uninsulated terminals use and the fact that the amount of closure MUST be correct. Too little closure and the wire will pull out. Too much closure and the wire is pinched almost in half and it will break quickly. Finally, there should also be a second crimp at the insulation only area. This insulation only crimp forms the stress relief: it keeps the wire from bending at the primary crimp so it does not fail from metal fatigue.

    I have a tool for the insulated terminals that was made by AMP. It has die areas that are correctly shaped for crimping the insulated terminals. It has a SEPARATE area for performing the insulation-only crimp. And it has the simplest provision for insuring that the closure of the die area is correct, a pair of flat surfaces on the inside of the handles that must come together for each crimp. And those surfaces also prevent too much closure as they positively stop the closing of the jaws. Oh, and this tool is also hardened for long life. This simple and relatively inexpensive tool does the proper job of crimping not only the insulated terminals made by AMP, but also on most of the ones made by other name brand manufacturers.

    I do NOT recommend purchasing bargain brand insulated terminals from any auto parts or hardware store. They may or may not work well. I have plugged them before and I will plug them again: the best place to purchase insulated terminals is from mainstream ELECTRONIC SUPPLY HOUSES: DigiKey, Newark, Mouser, Arrow, etc. The big guys. Buy your tools there. Buy your terminals there. And learn how to properly use those tools and you will not have any problems with insulated or uninsulated terminals.

    Internet suppliers or auto parts stores, selling Chinese stuff, NOT SO MUCH. I find it surprising how a group where the very mention of an imported lathe or milling machine is forbidden will tolerate such low quality tools and supplies when it comes to other things. Sorry, MY soapbox and I am standing on it.

    PS: Actual studies have been made where it was shown that properly made crimp connections are actually superior to soldered joints in terms of the number of bad connections per thousand.



    Quote Originally Posted by Brett W View Post
    First, stop using those garbage insulated crimp connectors. They are right behind just twisting wires together for quality.

    I use a two different crimpers for most of my uninsulated terminals. Some Klein Bird beak type and these:
    WEATHER PACK CRIMPING TOOL KIT

    These work well on most types of uninsulated terminals. I have something similar to these for the open barrel types like Packard terminals and others that require closing up around the wire.

    63811-1000 Molex Service Hand Crimp Tool F Type

    Once everything is all crimped, adhesive lined shrink wrap goes on. It supports the wire and keeps it from breaking at the barrel, plus it keeps moisture out of the joint.

  10. #29
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    First off- boat guys sort of look down their nose at automotive type crimpers and a split ferrule like in OP first photo would generally never be found around marine work.

    I dragged out some to the gear.
    Key here are the blue dual anvil Ancor crimpers.
    These ratchet, are adjustable, have a release lever so they can be released if you think the crimp is "done" and are handy as hell when out of position trying to do a bunch of crimps arms deep in some damn locker or compartment (always on a boat..).
    The anvils are different diameters to set a different gage crimp on the strand and insulation section of crimp ferrule.

    Maybe $90 bucks.
    Amazon.com: Ancor 701030 Double Crimp Tool : Tools & Home Improvement

    screen-shot-2021-09-20-5.02.33-am.jpg screen-shot-2021-09-20-5.02.47-am.jpg

    When past the size for those the Amp Rota-Crimps get hauled out- these babies will set lugs like they are welded on with 4/0.
    A bit more expensive:
    Amp - Te Connectivity Rota Crimp Hand Crimping Tool - 600850: Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement

    screen-shot-2021-09-20-5.03.33-am.jpg screen-shot-2021-09-20-5.03.11-am.jpg

    Finally the connector types used.

    These are not loose splits- all are brazed ferrule.
    At bottom is bare and is covered with adhesive lined shrink tubing after crimping.
    just above is a dual crimp plain- the ferrule has a crimp section on strand plus a metallic sleeve that crips the insulation- these are very secure.
    Next above are adhesive lined types- these are hit with heat gun after crimping and are very secure plus totally air and water tight.
    Those butts can be run submerged in bilge water.

    screen-shot-2021-09-20-5.01.18-am.jpg

    Everything is expensive but if I am gonna bother I drag out the adhesive lined types for anything that has the slightest chance of getting wet or exposed to corrosives.
    Even just air will eventually run up the strand under the insulation and crap out the wire so well... I use them most of the time.

    Something not to be missed which is essential is to provide cable support at the crimp junction to avoid fatigue failure when appropriate.
    The types above do so.

    I am not any expert- the marine world is sort of insular and has its quirks but this gear is how it is done on boats.
    Last edited by Trboatworks; 09-20-2021 at 11:39 AM.

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  12. #30
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    I generally find insulated terminals to be a little shaky no matter who makes them....they provide some insulation from contact but certainly don't do anything for atmospheric ingress.

    As for buying 'good ones' from good suppliers....more and more, I find that you can buy cheap ones from AutoZone that are made in China, or you can buy more expensive ones from a top supplier that are also cheap ones made in China.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    I generally find insulated terminals to be a little shaky no matter who makes them....they provide some insulation from contact but certainly don't do anything for atmospheric ingress.
    What I find effective is to dip the bare stranded wire strands in water-repellent grease, such as that used for corrosion control on battery terminals, before twisting into a bundle and inserting into the ferrule to be crimped. The crimping force well exceeds the strength of oil films, so the grease is simply pushed aside by the metal as the crimp is being formed. I also have used silicone dielectric grease with success. Works on battery terminals as well.


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    It's worth noting that the T&B crimper has two crimping notches, BOTH with "tongues". This, by conventional wisdom, makes it suitable for UNinsulated terminals only.

    The paeudo-competitive crimpers I've encountered have one tongued crimp notch and one no-tongue crimp notch. The no-tongue notch, again by conventional wisdom, is for insulated terminals.

    Also worth mentioning is that some of the crimpers having both tongued and tun-tongued have the tongued notch near the plier pivot, while others have the no-tongue notch near the pivot.

    My preference is to have the tongueless crimp notch nearer to the pivot.

    Beyond that, there are two common types of insulated solderless terminals, one having PVC insulation sleeves, and the other having nylon insulating sleeves. The PVC sleeves are generally opaque and the nylon sleeves are generally translucent.

    The nylon-sleeved terminals almost always are higher quality , in both their metal and plastic components . . . making them well worth their price premium.

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    "...but certainly don't do anything for atmospheric ingress."

    I beg to differ. A gas tight connection is exactly what a proper crimp DOES provide. And this applies to both uninsulated and insulated terminals. This is why a proper tool, that applies the correct amount of force/deformation is of the utmost importance when crimping electrical terminals. Nobody's hands are capable of doing this every time and that is why I do not like the tools (Kline?) that do not have either a ratchet or a fixed stop to allow the operator to obtain that proper degree of closure each and every time the tool is used.

    When the correct amount of force/closure is applied, spot welds are created which are gas tight. This is why crimped connections are more reliable than even soldered joints. I can tell horror stories about bad solder joints that were performed by the assembly workers of a major electronic manufacturer (initials are C A and R, but not in that order). And other horror stories about bad crimps made by users who did not use the tools properly.

    PS: I do not think it is a good idea to apply any grease or oil or any other foreign substance to the wire or terminal before crimping. It can only lead to a less reliable joint.



    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    I generally find insulated terminals to be a little shaky no matter who makes them....they provide some insulation from contact but certainly don't do anything for atmospheric ingress.

    As for buying 'good ones' from good suppliers....more and more, I find that you can buy cheap ones from AutoZone that are made in China, or you can buy more expensive ones from a top supplier that are also cheap ones made in China.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EPAIII View Post
    PS: I do not think it is a good idea to apply any grease or oil or any other foreign substance to the wire or terminal before crimping. It can only lead to a less reliable joint.
    That was the received wisdom in the 1970s, when I started greasing lead-acid battery posts after cleaning post and clamp with a steel wire brush - you could see that the mating surfaces were anything but flat, and so the metal-to-metal contact was largely air, with the electrical current flowing through asperities of one side forced into the other surface. Sulfuric Acid drool from the battery cells had no problem wicking up between post and clamp, corroding those asperities away, causing a bad connection, requiring another cleaning, and so on.

    Around then, General Electric introduced G635 silicone grease (now available from multiple sources) for coating of the insulators carrying high-voltage power lines exposed to the weather. It was waterproof and a very good dielectric, and water would not form a film on it, and it enveloped dust, greatly reducing outages due to flashovers. I found it to be very useful for coating the insides of automotive distributor caps, pretty much elimination inability to start in the morning from dew inside the cap or on the sparkplug porcelain insulators.

    Then it occurred to me that it might also work on battery terminals, as silicone grease is pretty much impervious to sulfuric acid. It worked quite well. I still had to clean post and clamp from time to time, but far less often. And there was no discernible effect on cranking.

    I was also having problems with road salt solution splashed up from the tires getting into stranded-wire terminal and splices. Soldering did work, but tended to stiffen the wire (solder wicking up the stranded wire), causing fatigue failures. Straight crimping resisted fatigue better, but salt solution wicked up the stranded wire, and corroded the wire.

    G635 to the rescue, again. After stripping the insulation, I would spread the strands out and smear them with G635, and then twist them back together, and crimp the terminal or splice to the greasy wire. This worked perfectly as well - there is clearly metal-to-metal atomic contact, all the oxide films et al having been disrupted by the crimping process, in which the copper flows plastically to the point that air is completely excluded, never mind grease.

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    I don't see how an insulated terminal of the type we are discussing will do a thing to provide a gas tight connection. If I can peek in the end of the insulation and still see the copper wire, that's no sort of gas barrier.terminals.jpg

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    This is what we use here and they work slick....
    Specific dies for plain and insulated terminals....
    Ratchet action gives great results...

    Quick Change Ratcheting Terminal Crimping Kit with 9 Die Sets | Tool Aid

    Cheers Ross

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    I don't see how an insulated terminal of the type we are discussing will do a thing to provide a gas tight connection. If I can peek in the end of the insulation and still see the copper wire, that's no sort of gas barrier.terminals.jpg
    You cannot see the crimp "nugget" from the outside. Cut a crimped connection in half, cutting right through the center of the crimp indentation, polish the cut surfaces, and inspect. All the strands should be squashed into rough hexagons by the swaging process, ideally with no space left for air.

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    I've had one for a long time and although I have a drawer full of crimpers that one is my go-to tool for heavier gauge uninsulated lugs.

    For lugs for heavier gauge wire I have two hammer operated ones. One has a row of different size openings and the other looks a bit like a screw jack with an opening cut through it. It makes a somewhat triangular crimp on multiple gauge terminals.

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    I don't want to divert this thread, but do any of you have a recommendation for a crimper that'll do flag terminals? These are on high-temp connectors that will regularly cycle between ambient and 450F and I need really secure, tight crimps. The factory crimps seem to have both a tuck and a squeeze which wraps the tang tightly before the final crimp. The flag type is required for space constraints and running numerous straight-line connections.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EPAIII View Post
    ... A gas tight connection is exactly what a proper crimp DOES provide. ...t.
    No consumer-grade crimp terminal or consumer-grade crimp tool can do that.

    A thomas/betts crimp tool with lug terminals won't, evidence being that when I flow solder into one end of the joint, it flows out the other end.
    It's gas tight after that treatment, however!


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