best quality New lathe advice needed

DrHook · Aug 6, 2019

I need to replace a 1980's South Bend 14-1/2" x 8' lathe at work. It had been abused, and has too much play and wear on the ways. I would like to find a replacement which ideally would also have a somewhat larger spindle bore and maybe more power, although those are not absolute. (1-3/8", 2 HP) It does not necessarily need an 8' bed, either. I realize this is a broad question, but is there anything available new which is either not made in some form of China, or is good quality anyway? I cannot answer budget questions, as I do not know that answer, so just ass-ume it is not an issue, and I will sort it out. Taper, and threading, yes.
Thanks in advance!

thermite · Aug 6, 2019

DrHook said:
I need to replace a 1980's South Bend 14-1/2" x 8' lathe at work. It had been abused, and has too much play and wear on the ways. I would like to find a replacement which ideally would also have a somewhat larger spindle bore and maybe more power, although those are not absolute. (1-3/8", 2 HP) It does not necessarily need an 8' bed, either. I realize this is a broad question, but is there anything available new which is either not made in some form of China, or is good quality anyway? I cannot answer budget questions, as I do not know that answer, so just ass-ume it is not an issue, and I will sort it out. Taper, and threading, yes.
Thanks in advance!

Too easy. Too MANY choices. Lightweight SB 40 years in service, most manual lathes not already notorious as risky (Grisely?) will be an improvement.

Any of the "Taiwanese-generic" at the low-end, South Korea's Hwacheon in the middle, or if racist Cast Iron is actually a factor, go for former East Bloc Europe, Basque Spain, or Germany in increasing order of cost, delivered.

If you are serious as to "best quality" and have "real money" in the budget? You SHOULD probably be looking at CNC or "teach-in" CNC/manual hybrids.

Even so, Monarch Lathe in Sidney,Ohio probably have what you want. The work-envelope probably puts you into this category:

Engine | Monarch Lathes

Usual disclaimer: "They have competition."

.

Ries · Aug 6, 2019

Monarch sells the polish made Trens. The SN50C comes in an 80" length. About 40 grand Canadian the way you would probably want it. Dunno how much extra you would pay to get it from Monarch... NEW TOS SN50C LATHE

Mike1974 · Aug 6, 2019

thermite said:
Too easy. Too MANY choices. Lightweight SB 40 years in service, most manual lathes not already notorious as risky (Grisely?) will be an improvement.

Any of the "Taiwanese-generic" at the low-end, South Korea's Hwacheon in the middle, or if racist Cast Iron is actually a factor, go for former East Bloc Europe, Basque Spain, or Germany in increasing order of cost, delivered.

If you are serious as to "best quality" and have "real money" in the budget? You SHOULD probably be looking at CNC or "teach-in" CNC/manual hybrids.

Even so, Monarch Lathe in Sidney,Ohio probably have what you want. The work-envelope probably puts you into this category:

Engine | Monarch Lathes

Usual disclaimer: "They have competition."

.

A cnc lathe with an 8' bed is going to be super spendy though. Yes, I see he doesn't need that, but it is a real limitation if you are doing any work between centers, or just long pieces..

Not sure if this is supposed to be a unmentionable or not, but I have used one and it cuts well enough, I imagine it is at least as rigid as an old SB, though I have never needed to hog with it or removes lots and lots of chips.

BibbTool.com - 1860L, 1880L - Sharp precision lathe 1860L, 1880L

3.12" spindle bore, 16" swing, 40" between centers

daryl bane · Aug 6, 2019

First choice , Hwacheon, second Victor, and have heard good things about Sharp.

rcoope · Aug 6, 2019

I was going to say you should seriously look at a CNC lathe with a good conversational control. Once you've made a couple of parts on, say, a TL-1 in my case, you cannot go back. And not only is CNC control great but watching big chips bang into your enclosure while coolant flies everywhere will make you wonder why anyone ever made open machine tools in the first place. Having said that I'm not sure what the best option in your size is. Haas no longer makes anything bigger than the 8"x4' TL-2, but I"m sure there are options out there.

RC Mech · Aug 6, 2019

We have a version of this Taiwanese lathe:

GMC GT-3280 Precision Gap Bed Lathe

No affiliation with the dealer other than he was kind enough to give me a manual for ours. You can find slightly smaller versions of the lathe on the website. The spindle bore in question is 4-1/8", ours has a 20" Bison chuck. It's Taiwanese but decently built with a 15 hp spindle motor. Does everything we need it to. We're fans of old Iron but this machine has little to no wear. Ours has 96 threading variations (inch, metric, dia(bol?)metrical, whitworth).

You say "best quality" but then mention "Southbend". Does not compute. :ack2:

thermite · Aug 6, 2019

Mike1974 said:
A cnc lathe with an 8' bed is going to be super spendy though. Yes, I see he doesn't need that, but it is a real limitation if you are doing any work between centers, or just long pieces..

Not sure if this is supposed to be a unmentionable or not, but I have used one and it cuts well enough, I imagine it is at least as rigid as an old SB, though I have never needed to hog with it or removes lots and lots of chips.

BibbTool.com - 1860L, 1880L - Sharp precision lathe 1860L, 1880L

3.12" spindle bore, 16" swing, 40" between centers

With a D1-8 nose, 7 1/2 HP, that is surely a "mentionable", not a hobbywhore's.

3600 Avoir @ 10" longer c-to-c, 2" more swing, 6 MT over 5 MT, and half a horsepower more than a 14" x 30" 7 HP HBX 360, @ around 3200 Avoir, it isn't THAT heavily built, but... could make a 1980 SB look sorta Iron-deficiency anemic.

Even so.. it's 2019 already. Going forward, finding good all-manual Machinists who wouldn't rather go do some other work - or have not ALREADY done so - is going to be a factor.

Look at the Okuma teach-in, the Cazeneuve Optica teach-in.. they have competition.

Might have to "go find" more money, more likely, buy used. But yah have a better chance of it lasting longer and paying BACK faster, too.

thermite · Aug 6, 2019

Ries said:
Monarch sells the polish made Trens. The SN50C comes in an 80" length. About 40 grand Canadian the way you would probably want it. Dunno how much extra you would pay to get it from Monarch... NEW TOS SN50C LATHE

Trens are a Slovakian firm. Eastern half - roughly - of former Czechoslovakia, though the Czech Republic half generally had the higher marks for technology, counting backwards into history. ToS is still there, but no longer necessarily the "badge" put onto the lathes:

Products

Lathe itself could still be made in Poland. Or Bulgaria. Even Basque country, much as one has to check a VIN number to sort whether a "US" pickup truck was made in US, Canada, or Mexico.

Europe is not all that large, has easier transport & tariff situation.

Trens European website doesn't say so though:

COMPANY PROFILE | Trens

Company History | Trens

....but Monarch Lathe surely knows.

See also "Fermat Group" & Lucas Precision, once prominent on Monarch's web page;

Fermat Acquires Lucas Precision

DrHook · Aug 6, 2019

RC Mech said:
We have a version of this Taiwanese lathe:

GMC GT-3280 Precision Gap Bed Lathe

No affiliation with the dealer other than he was kind enough to give me a manual for ours. You can find slightly smaller versions of the lathe on the website. The spindle bore in question is 4-1/8", ours has a 20" Bison chuck. It's Taiwanese but decently built with a 15 hp spindle motor. Does everything we need it to. We're fans of old Iron but this machine has little to no wear. Ours has 96 threading variations (inch, metric, dia(bol?)metrical, whitworth).

You say "best quality" but then mention "Southbend". Does not compute.

The Southbend is what I have currently. It is way more sturdy and functional than the Grizzly another department I work with purchased, in my opinion... If I can convince the powers that be to allow me to purchase a new machine, I don't want to end up with something like that thing. Thus my request for input from folks who have experience in what is available now.

RC Mech · Aug 6, 2019

DrHook said:
The Southbend is what I have currently. It is way more sturdy and functional than the Grizzly another department I work for has... I don't want to end up with something like that thing.

I gotcha.

The lathe in my link is IMO an excellent deal for a business looking to purchase new. The large spindle bore and rapids are quite useful. Not a top-of-the-line machine by any means but fairly solid @ 9900lbs dry.

sco_27 · Aug 6, 2019

thermite said:
Trens are a Slovakian firm. Eastern half - roughly - of former Czechoslovakia, though the Czech Republic half generally had the higher marks for technology, counting backwards into history. ToS is still there, but no longer necessarily the "badge" put onto the lathes:

Products

Lathe itself could still be made in Poland. Or Bulgaria. Even Basque country, much as one has to check a VIN number to sort whether a "US" pickup truck was made in US, Canada, or Mexico.

Europe is not all that large, has easier transport & tariff situation.

Trens European website doesn't say so though:

COMPANY PROFILE | Trens

Company History | Trens

....but Monarch Lathe surely knows.

See also "Fermat Group" & Lucas Precision, once prominent on Monarch's web page;

Fermat Acquires Lucas Precision

TRENS lathes are still (and always were) made in Slovakia, in the ex-factory of TOS Trenčín - by that I mean lathe series SV, SN and SUI. Very highly regarded, with spare parts available for reasonable prices from various sources. Their machining centres on the other hand, are polished Taiwanese import with not very good reputation, or so I've heard.

TOS (Továrny obráběcích strojů = Machine Tool Factories) was a brand under which all machine tool building companies & companies manufacturing machine tool accessories in Czechoslovakia were unified back in the old days. The second part of the brand name is the city in which the factory was located - be it Varnsdorf, Kuřim, Olomouc, Trenčín, Galanta, Lipník, Hostivař, Jásová etc. After the revolution the individual companies were privatized - some continued with production and are still going strong today, some were bought but foreign (western) companies such as Fermat in Lipník or Weiler in Holoubkov to expand their portfolio, others just to get them bankrupt and eliminate competition... and other got bankrupt by new greedy Slovak/Czech owners.

Old TOS iron was made to a very high standard, and I would expect similar quality from the machines produced nowadays (at least those evolved from old proven designs).

The first part of your post is a very sensitive topic around here.

Lubos

thermite · Aug 8, 2019

sco_27 said:
The first part of your post is a very sensitive topic around here.

Only for about fifteen hundred years, so far ... yah?

It wasn't ever over intelligences, nor "genetic" differences. At the outset, river access may have been more important.

Resources were more dispersed than concentrated. It took more work, longer, to coalesce to critical industrial mass. Periodic invasions weren't a lot of help, either.

Many of the brighter and more energetic locals took the risks that saw them end up in my hometown. Pittsburgh, PA. Making OUR steel and the fine machinery and mechanisms spawned off it!

Britain? See Bren gun. See also Bren carrier.

And more wise and pragmatic engineering. I would EXPECT very good lathes.

Y'all DO get around... even to managing chunks of the high-end of the lodging, food & beverage biz. In Hong Kong!

Or even meal planning in our White House!

Tyrone Shoelaces · Aug 8, 2019

I'm a bit out of date now but in the old days ( last century ) any machine made by the TOS conglomerate would be good quality and very good value for money price wise.

Regards Tyrone.

TedinNorfolk · Aug 8, 2019

Yes-they had a brick s..t house aura to them,and were often finished white. sco 27,many years ago when I was on the Ward 3A,I was next to a TOS Olomouc miller. Not seen one since.

SND · Aug 9, 2019

Kingston (Kinwa) I'm happy with my HJ1700, runs good for 9 years now and makes $ every day.
They're sold under a few other names, but there are 2-3 builders who make a very similar looking machine and the quality varies a lot between them.
Kinwa is the good one.

If you want to spend more, quite a bit more $, there are other options. But I thought the Kingston was really good bang for the $, better than a lot of other imported brands from taiwan/china I've had to use before.

machinistrrt · Aug 10, 2019

thermite said:
If you are serious as to "best quality" and have "real money" in the budget? You SHOULD probably be looking at CNC or "teach-in" CNC/manual hybrids.

Even so, Monarch Lathe in Sidney,Ohio probably have what you want. The work-envelope probably puts you into this category:

Engine | Monarch Lathes

Usual disclaimer: "They have competition."

.

Second vote for Monarch. I have a 16x30 Model C, vintage 1939, and it still is tight. I'm hoping a model 610 or 612 will fall into my lap. Even a Model 60. If money no object, have Monarch locate a 612 and rebuild it to new specs.

btm · Aug 11, 2019

I've heard good things about the Kingston HJ-1100 lathes, although I've never operated one.
I'm looking into one for my own shop. Prices for new seem very reasonable.

If you decide to go used and money is a factor, you could look into many of the Clausing and Harrison machines that are common at the used equipment dealers.

btm

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