Best way to make this part?

Jay Fleming · Jun 25, 2018

Based on my current capabilities, I'd be looking at milling it, most likely with an rotary indexer. It would take several operations and would not be ideal for any quantity. A newer machine with a 5 axis multi-head indexer would be nice but the machine cost would be astronomical. I've thought about die casting but adding the cavities seems like it would make for a more complex (expensive) mold. This would definitely require a large number of parts to justify the cost. It's part of something I'm trying to market in the near future but the market price would need to be low enough to sell. Not interested in going overseas to lower the cost if it can be avoided. This is also not the final draft of the part but close enough to give a good idea of the basic shape and features.

What is the consensus?

Thanks.

Edit: the surface will be anodized with a brushed finish underneath, therefore the surface will need to be 64 Ra or better before any surface treatment.

carbonbl · Jun 25, 2018

Material requirements?

Jay Fleming · Jun 25, 2018

carbonbl said:
Material requirements?

6061, 2024, or 7075 Aluminum

Illinoyance · Jun 25, 2018

Press form the two halves. Weld them together.

Jay Fleming · Jun 25, 2018

Illinoyance said:
Press form the two halves. Weld them together.

Didn't think of that. What are the considerations that need to be made when designing/machining the form and die?

DDoug · Jun 25, 2018

How about carving up a cavity mold for wax injection, leading to a
lost wax casting.

DocsMachine · Jun 25, 2018

Jay Fleming said:
Didn't think of that. What are the considerations that need to be made when designing/machining the form and die?

-Compensate for springback, make sure die surfaces are smooth and hardened to reduce scarring, fit the dies closely enough to accommodate your desired tolerances, and account for material thickness between the die and form.

Doc.

PlasmaOnTheBrain · Jun 25, 2018

If your going to weld it, you're kinda stuck with 6061. 7075 and 2024 are not really good for welding as they will tend to crack, either right away or a few months into service.
6061 in the t6 condition does not like being bent. Anything other than t0, which only lasts till it warms up to room temp from quenching, is likely to crack unless your bend has a large radius (8-10X thickness or bigger).
I think the 3000's and some of the 5000's are bendable and weldable, but have some other trade off's. Mostly corrosion resistance and strength/toughness.

billzweig · Jun 25, 2018

Size? 3D printing in metal might be the way if not too big. Or 3D printing a wax pattern and casting.

gkoenig · Jun 26, 2018

What's the business case?

What kind of margins are you looking at? Direct to consumer? Medical? Aerospace? Uncle Sugar?

How important is overall fit/finish? Is this a cheap commodity thing that needs to be this way to elegantly bring together parts of an assembly? Or is this a Class A part where the quality and haptics will have a big impact on how people use and feel about this as a product?

Is there market demand for this widget, or are you starting a new thing?

Those questions are far more impactful on the process you choose here than anything else.

What you need to do is start making them and iterating. On a 3 axis mill with a rotary and dovetail workholding, that is a 3.5 setup part: .5 puts a dovetail on one of the wide sides. 1 is in the rotary to rough off the material, do the bores/openings, rough and finish everything you have access to. 2 has the part in the dovetail facing up in Z to finish the opposite face. 3 is gently clamped in a vise to cut off the dovetail and finish that last face. If you want to get fancy, the last op could be done with a MiteeBite expanding clamp profiled to slip into and expand into the internal cavity.

It wouldn't be efficient, but it could get you along enough to do the most important thing, which is prove out the market. Once you have any sort of traction, the world of possibilities for how to make a part open up exponentially. Right now, focus on the part and overall product using your current capabilities.

sandiapaul · Jun 26, 2018

If you weld it, and even if you make your own 6061 rod, after anodizing you will still see the weld. An expensive lesson I learned on a appearance critical part.

WizardOfBoz · Jun 26, 2018

to gkoenig's excellent points, I'd ask about tolerance. Do the three holes in the end have to comprise an interference fit, to be brazed for use in high vacuum? Or is this a scout neckerchief slide?

Ron Hofer · Jun 26, 2018

Answering your initial query, I would say 'under an assumed name.'

Limy Sami · Jun 27, 2018

Still no mention of size, ……which could have a BIG bearing on how the part is made.

Peter from Holland · Jun 27, 2018

Perhaps change the design a bit to make it out of sheetmetal

Peter

jscpm · Jun 27, 2018

No dimensions given.
No tolerance given.
No material specified.
No sections provided.
3D rendering views do not completely show object.

I suggest learning how to become a machinist first, and worry about making parts for other people later.

Or is this another one of those wacky questions from an "inventor" trying to make a perpetual motion machine?

DDoug · Jun 27, 2018

jscpm said:
Or is this another one of those wacky questions from an "inventor" trying to make a perpetual motion machine?

"Athletic Supporter"..... :skep:

Rob F. · Jun 27, 2018

OP is on Oaklahoma so I am thinking it for making Y connections in large oilfield pipe.

Jay Fleming · Jul 11, 2018

I haven't made it back here in a while, so I'll see what answers I can give.

digger doug said:
How about carving up a cavity mold for wax injection, leading to a
lost wax casting.

I don't think the surface finish on the outside of the part would be suitable and would require further machining.

DocsMachine said:
-Compensate for springback, make sure die surfaces are smooth and hardened to reduce scarring, fit the dies closely enough to accommodate your desired tolerances, and account for material thickness between the die and form.

Doc.

I'm starting to think press forming and welding isn't the best option. I'd have to remachine the entire exterior of the part due to the weld bead and possible warping.

billzweig said:
Size? 3D printing in metal might be the way if not too big. Or 3D printing a wax pattern and casting.

Roughly 2" wide, 2" tall, 1" thick. Model is not proportional. Surface finish wouldn't be tolerable and would require too much machine work afterwards.

gkoenig said:
What's the business case?
New product to promote on a crowd funding site

What kind of margins are you looking at? Direct to consumer? Medical? Aerospace? Uncle Sugar?
50% would be ideal but 30% at quantity would be okay. Direct to consumer. Not any of the cases above.

How important is overall fit/finish? Is this a cheap commodity thing that needs to be this way to elegantly bring together parts of an assembly? Or is this a Class A part where the quality and haptics will have a big impact on how people use and feel about this as a product?
Very high quality fit and finish. Not a cheap commodity thing but trying to tap a new market. I said previously it's part of an assembly but in actuality that is the final part. Quality and Haptics are essential.

Is there market demand for this widget, or are you starting a new thing?
New thing, but people may feel they need it

Those questions are far more impactful on the process you choose here than anything else.

What you need to do is start making them and iterating. On a 3 axis mill with a rotary and dovetail workholding, that is a 3.5 setup part: .5 puts a dovetail on one of the wide sides. 1 is in the rotary to rough off the material, do the bores/openings, rough and finish everything you have access to. 2 has the part in the dovetail facing up in Z to finish the opposite face. 3 is gently clamped in a vise to cut off the dovetail and finish that last face. If you want to get fancy, the last op could be done with a MiteeBite expanding clamp profiled to slip into and expand into the internal cavity.

It wouldn't be efficient, but it could get you along enough to do the most important thing, which is prove out the market. Once you have any sort of traction, the world of possibilities for how to make a part open up exponentially. Right now, focus on the part and overall product using your current capabilities.

Making the marketing prototypes won't be an issue but mass production is the key. Based on my desire to take it to a crowd funding site, I need to know what kind of prices to expect for production to know how to price it en masse.

Answered your questions within the quote.

bosleyjr said:
to gkoenig's excellent points, I'd ask about tolerance. Do the three holes in the end have to comprise an interference fit, to be brazed for use in high vacuum? Or is this a scout neckerchief slide?

Tolerance is loose +/- .015. Closer to your latter guess than the former.

Limy Sami said:
Still no mention of size, ……which could have a BIG bearing on how the part is made.

Roughly 2" W x 2" H x 1" D. Size may change based on different designs but will stay semi-close to these numbers.

Peter from Holland said:
Perhaps change the design a bit to make it out of sheetmetal

Peter

Thought about that also but couldn't really come up with a good way to make everything work properly. Still might consider it.

Rob F. said:
OP is on Oaklahoma so I am thinking it for making Y connections in large oilfield pipe.

Not quite.

Best way to make this part?

Hot Rolled

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Diamond

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Cast Iron

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