Brass Extruding

Airborne · Jul 20, 2008

Need some brass extrusions done for a part we're making (custom nut in quantities of 1M+).

Has anyone here had any experiences with brass extruding? How would prices compare to that of typical brass bars (around $4/lb for solid hex in 360 brass)?

Thanks.

surplusjohn · Jul 20, 2008

Extruding is an efficient way to get nearer to your net shape. Price of the extrusion should be comparable to the bar since that is how those are made also, but in larger quantities. I used to have a part made from a brass extrusion, it saved considerable machining. on the east coast Colonial Bronze in Torrington Ct used to do low volumn brass extrusions, iirc

Ox · Jul 20, 2008

Chicago Extruded ____________ - or something like that is a brass extrooder - obviously in the Chi Town area.

I see their product on trucks with my steel regularly.

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Peter Colman · Jul 20, 2008

Hi I used to earn my living selling brass extrusions, In general the problem with brass is that it will not weld downstream from the die (unlike ali which does) this means that hollow extrusions are more difficult to make, I suspect that you are after hollow hexagon for your job, if so with all normal outside to hole ratios ie as in a standard nut, the extra cost per lb of the metal ourweighs the saving in machining time, when you get to larger thin walled sizes then it is worth considering hollows.
If I can see a drawng tat I may be able to help.
Peter

Airborne · Jul 20, 2008

Thanks folks.

Peter, the hex is .8125 flat to flat. Thread is 11/16-24 UNEF, which has a minor diameter of about .644. Not big, but very hollow.

If we were to get a few tons of extrusions done at the standard brass price of $3.80-$4.00/lb, we can make some decent money off this recurring job. If we were to use solid hex, the material would cost more than the target price of the finished product.

Ox · Jul 20, 2008

[High volume] brass werk has historically been ran for the cost of the material alone.

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Steve@Reliance · Jul 20, 2008

So the profit comes from the scrap??

SteveinAZ · Jul 20, 2008

You might want to give Frank Mari a PM...I recall he runs a job for less than the material cost, but it's a long standing customer, well proven programs, etc. I believe he has a deal with the brass guys...sells the scrap back to the mill, and they pick it up when delivering prime material.

Your part may well run from round cheaper than hex on a multispindle machine with polygon turning, you'll just have to run the numbers and see how it shakes out.

Good luck, Steve

nakedanvil · Jul 21, 2008

I believe the idea of getting the custom shap at regular bar price does not include the price of the extrusion die. That may not be a factor over millions of parts. When you say 1M+ I assume you mean Million, actually the abrviation "M" stands for thousand. It's a metic thing or maybe Roman numeral (same)?

willbird · Jul 21, 2008

SteveinAZ said:
You might want to give Frank Mari a PM...I recall he runs a job for less than the material cost, but it's a long standing customer, well proven programs, etc. I believe he has a deal with the brass guys...sells the scrap back to the mill, and they pick it up when delivering prime material.

Your part may well run from round cheaper than hex on a multispindle machine with polygon turning, you'll just have to run the numbers and see how it shakes out.

Good luck, Steve

My wife is a dispatcher for a trucking co. that hauls a LOT of brass rod out, 45,000lbs typically, and the same truck hauls back 45,000 lbs of chips and or bar ends, back to the same place that sold them the brass/bronze/copper rod.

One major user makes that little nut that fastens your coax cable to your tv, most of the material is made into chips.

Bill

fmari --MariTool- · Jul 21, 2008

It is cheaper to make the part and recycle more brass than to pay a higher " fab cost" by having brass extruded. Trust me I looked into this on a couple of jobs. Normal brass can be purchased and recycled at a 25-30 cent spread " fab cost". IE if you buy brass at $3.30 a lb normally you can sell the scrap at $3.00 per lb. But brass extrusion the spread may be $1.00 and you have much less scrap. Anyway you really have to know the job and your machines to run parts for free. I do not recommend it for the light hearted.

Ox · Jul 21, 2008

Will:

Have you ever heard of Chase running special shapes? (Other than octagon for Steve and whoever else is running garden hoses)

I haven't...

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Are there rustlers on the border or a team of Nappy Headed Hoes?
Are you headin' fer the Alamo?
Ox

Peter Colman · Jul 24, 2008

For nuts that size I would consider a hot forged blank with the centre cored out to just below tapping size, auto load them onto chucking rotary table machine and drill the hole to size at the same time as you remove the flash and then tap.
I used to make water fitting nuts in 1/2" bsp with 27/32" tapping hole 4 at a time on a Gnutti transfer machine in 15 seconds ie just under 4 seconds each, I am still pretty sure that the solid hex will be cheaper than the hollow in the long run also beware that the hole will not be central in the hollow rod so you will bave to bore the hole rather than drill.
We found that it only became economical to use hollow rod from about 2" od by 1 3/8 bore upwards, in particular for ball bearing cages and similar work.

Jason001 · Sep 9, 2019

This may be off topic from the original question, but I was wondering if anyone else has been experiencing problems with hex brass material (12 ft bars), with what seems to be a twist in the material?

FredC · Sep 9, 2019

You probably should not resurrect a 10+ year old thread to ask an unrelated question. I read half the proceeding before I caught on.
Never saw hex with a twist from domestic suppliers. I would have to guess the material is cheap imported. I would send it back if it causes tolerance, feeding, or any other problems.
I do not use much hex anymore but we used to unload semi loads when I worked for someone else.

Jason001 · Sep 9, 2019

Thank You for the response

FredC said:
You probably should not resurrect a 10+ year old thread to ask an unrelated question. I read half the proceeding before I caught on.
Never saw hex with a twist from domestic suppliers. I would have to guess the material is cheap imported. I would send it back if it causes tolerance, feeding, or any other problems.
I do not use much hex anymore but we used to unload semi loads when I worked for someone else.

Yes, I was not paying attention to the date of the thread. We have already sent the material back once, they are supplier is sending one of their reps out next week to our facility to hopefully explain what is all of a sudden different. The last two batches have beat the hell out of our Davenport machines.

Ox · Sep 9, 2019

Apparently you are talking about camber, and not twist?

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Jason001 · Sep 12, 2019

Camber

Ox said:
Apparently you are talking about camber, and not twist?

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

You are correct! That is a great way to describe it!

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