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  1. #21
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    The taper attachment and the quickchange toolpost, with holders is worth the asking price. I would buy it and use it for at least a year before you decide if you need something better. You will not lose money if you change your mind latter.
    How will you get it home? It probably weighs about 1,000 pounds or more.
    It is top heavy and will want to roll forward onto its face breaking off lots of expensive bits. It is definitely light enough to lift with an engine hoist.
    Bill D

    USA army training manual for lathes is a good read.

    US Army machinist course Lathe Operations OD1645 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

    Information from Tony in England. I think this is your make and model?

    Churchill Cub Lathe

    copied from this reading..
    "The spindle nose appears to have been Churchill's own adaptation of the standard "Camlock" flange - but with 3/8" Allen screws instead of studs - and carried a No 3 Morse taper; Pratt Burnerd apparently retain a pattern of the Churchill mount and are able to supply new chucks with the proper fitting built in."

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    What is the spindle bore on a Monarch 10EE? or more the common 9" southbend? More than plenty of great work is done with small bore spindles.
    This is true but that's the same as saying a lot of great work has been done on a Myford lathe.

    It's a fact but doesn't address the question of how much great work *couldn't* be done because of the size/spindle bore limitation.

    I wouldn't buy a lathe with less than 35mm spindle bore, 40mm would be better and 75mm wouldn't be too much (for my needs).

    PDW

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    This is true but that's the same as saying a lot of great work has been done on a Myford lathe.

    It's a fact but doesn't address the question of how much great work *couldn't* be done because of the size/spindle bore limitation.

    I wouldn't buy a lathe with less than 35mm spindle bore, 40mm would be better and 75mm wouldn't be too much (for my needs).

    PDW
    I curse the smallish spindle bore on my old (1942) monarch 16" every time I need to use the steady to work the end of a long square bar too big for the bore, but really it isn't that big a deal, for me anyway. Might be different if I was upside down, like you guys down there

  5. #24
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    There's a guy who's well known for moving them for people. Steve Landylift.

    I've been reading up on VFD inverters and quite fancy the project. I've emailed the seller, and hope it's still available.

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    I looked at the lathes uk link and it looks like that is a timken bearing spindle.
    Those bearings should be safe at some amount of overspeed that you could give it with a VFD. They also have a manual for it but they are also selling it so I would think the manual would be included in sale.

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    I curse the smallish spindle bore on my old (1942) monarch 16" every time I need to use the steady to work the end of a long square bar too big for the bore, but really it isn't that big a deal, for me anyway. Might be different if I was upside down, like you guys down there
    If it's a CY I have one also - it's also a 1942 war baby. The 1-1/2" spindle bore is really annoying because I sometimes do prop shafts. OTOH the taper attachment is fantastic.

    I'm hanging out for a DS&G 17" with taper attachment. Not holding my breath and in another couple years I won't need it anyway. Some big projects are going to end and then I may scale back some.

    PDW

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    Quote Originally Posted by carl0s View Post
    There's a guy who's well known for moving them for people. Steve Landylift.

    I've been reading up on VFD inverters and quite fancy the project. I've emailed the seller, and hope it's still available.
    If you can wire a relay, you can do a basic inverter installation.

    Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cole2534 View Post
    If you can wire a relay, you can do a basic inverter installation.

    Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk
    Yes, I am just uncertain on the motor types and requirements. i.e. will it be an induction motor (are all 3 phase AC motors induction?), or will it be brushed? I don't know (haven't had time to research) the winding configurations that are compatible with VFDs (the seller talks about star-delta being necessary.. he's going to check the existing motor for me).

    Anyway, hopefully, I have bought it :-)

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  11. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    The taper attachment and the quickchange toolpost, with holders is worth the asking price. I would buy it and use it for at least a year before you decide if you need something better. You will not lose money if you change your mind latter.
    How will you get it home? It probably weighs about 1,000 pounds or more.
    It is top heavy and will want to roll forward onto its face breaking off lots of expensive bits. It is definitely light enough to lift with an engine hoist.
    Bill D

    USA army training manual for lathes is a good read.

    US Army machinist course Lathe Operations OD1645 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

    Information from Tony in England. I think this is your make and model?

    Churchill Cub Lathe

    copied from this reading..
    "The spindle nose appears to have been Churchill's own adaptation of the standard "Camlock" flange - but with 3/8" Allen screws instead of studs - and carried a No 3 Morse taper; Pratt Burnerd apparently retain a pattern of the Churchill mount and are able to supply new chucks with the proper fitting built in."
    Another site to get the US Army lathe Course:
    https://archive.hnsa.org/doc/pdf/lathe.pdf

    A decent cub with a taper attachment .. That is a very good machine. IMHO.

  12. #30
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    Before laying out any money I would certainly test the machine to be sure it cuts straight and isn't falling apart. It looks to be in good condition, but sometimes looks are deceiving.

    It is well accessorized and doesn't appear abused. The only drawbacks I see is that it is a change gear machine, has a relatively short bed, and has a small bore through the spindle. Neither of these is a game stopper, they just limit the size of work you can do, and increase the time you will spend selecting thread sizes.

    I have an older machine with the same size bore and a change gear setup. In my case the bed is a bit longer at 60" I used it exclusively for nearly 15 years before I purchased a second machine with a larger spindle bore, and similar length bed. The newer machine (1960) has a 1 3/8' bore, a 56" bed, and a quick change gear box. The quick change gear box and larger spindle bore are extremely nice to have. I still use the older, smaller machine on a regular basis, it's just nice to have some of the other features.

  13. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    It matters not in the least the book is WELL past sixty - because it deals with CONCEPTS. They have not changed much

    Thoroughly digest this and you will be ahead of where you are now

    http://campkahler.com/files/How_to_R...he_SB_1of2.pdf

    http://campkahler.com/files/How_to_R...he_SB_2of2.pdf
    About 25 years ago when I got my lathe, my professional machinist, mentor, friend gave me a copy of How to Run a Lathe. I studied it in detail and it saved both of us a lot of my questions. That's a great book!

  14. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by carl0s View Post
    Yes, I am just uncertain on the motor types and requirements. i.e. will it be an induction motor (are all 3 phase AC motors induction?), or will it be brushed? I don't know (haven't had time to research) the winding configurations that are compatible with VFDs (the seller talks about star-delta being necessary.. he's going to check the existing motor for me).

    Anyway, hopefully, I have bought it :-)
    Glad to hear you have bought it. It looks like a great buy, particularly with all of the tooling that comes with it. A lathe of that size is highly desirable and can resell again and again, precisely because it is manageable for home-shop types.

    Any 3-phase motor is an induction motor, and in fact is about the simplest induction motor there is - no need for capacitors or start circuits, because the 3-phase gets it going, and it also allows instantaneous reversing. The only question would be if it were some strange voltage requirement, but I would think that very unlikely; almost certainly just about any VFD with the appropriate power rating will handle it just fine. Alternately, if you find a cheap (or sometimes free) 3-phase motor, you can build a rotary converter for peanuts.

    Quote Originally Posted by projectnut View Post
    The only drawbacks I see is that it is a change gear machine ...
    From what I can see, it has a quick change gear box covering a wide range of tpi; the change gears are needed only for metric. And the fact that it comes with those gears is a huge plus!!

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    Phase number wont mean much on you electric bill just running one motor and only part time. looks like it came with a 3/4 1500 RPM.
    A single phase 1 hp with the very same frame for installation ease might be the way to go.
    1750 motors are more common..With the pulley size you can keep machine RPM numbers correct.
    Talk to a good electrician and do the job with proper set-up. Good to have such a machine having a ground wire..not just depending on the motor ground wire IMHO.

    Yes having 3 phase in the garage 3 phase is good, but not worth a fortune if needing to change.

    Old common trick is hand rolling your chuck with changing gears and going to back gear..That often makes thing go together with not braking the machine. A lock out switch is good so children or visitors don't get hurt. The old of Don't touch seems to have been lost.

  16. #34
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    Cub is a nice solid little lathe.

    If you have the taper attachment version make sure you know how to lock the cross slide for normal turning. My pal Mike-the-Pilot had one for a while maybe a decade or so back and didn't really get how the system worked. took me about an hour to explain things so he finally "got it". Admittedly he'd never run a lathe with a taper attachment before but if British Airways let him drive 747s he shouldn't have had much trouble figuring it out.

    Moved it on because of the chuck issue. His weren't wonderful and absolutely zilch chance of finding more. No three jaw, other than the specials supplied with it, will fit. You end up drilling through the scroll for the bolt holes. A four jaw can be got on but odds are it will be smaller than you'd like. I schemed out a way of getting a DIN style "stud through a keyhole fixing" on using a modified D1-4 (?) short taper backplate. More work than I wanted and it costs you about an inch of bed space but it can be done. Fortunately Mike traded up before I had to put money where my drawing was.

    I found the Cub nice to drive, better than equivalent Colchesters for sure, but my 1024 VSL is a vastly better machine. Seriously unfair comparison as the Cub was a budget, a very good budget, lathe whilst the 1024 is a toolroom machine of the very highest class.

    Clive

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    Thanks for all the input and advice everybody. I am going to see it tomorrow, but it's a done deal as far as I'm concerned.
    The motor is a dual-speed / pole changing motor, 3 phase 415v.
    I have single phase 240v.

    I am planning on a 220v single-phase-in -> 380v 3-phase out 4kw VFD.
    I gather these voltage-boosting VFDs have an inbuilt step-up transformer or something, and they often don't come in very big sizes. In fact I can only find 2.2kw locally. The 4kw is from aliexpress.
    I'll wait a while and see anyway. Might be cheaper and easier to swap the motor for a 3-phase 230v and get a non-boosting VFD.

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    Motor limited to 1000 rpm you say ? That s a problem for me anyhow.

    Digger must have the day off

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    The (expensive) VFD's modified to 220 V in - 420 V out by Drives Direct do work well. I have one of the 10 hp "plug'n play" ones running my shop. Other breeds not so sure. Had two other converted ones from different sources through my hands that were, at best, sort of OK. It is said that many of the China direct 220 - 380 VFD's are mis-described and simply don't do what the supplier says. No transformer, just a voltage doubling rectifier on the input stage plus other difference.

    The two speed pole changing motors are excellent electrical machines but not exactly VFD friendly. My P&W model B has two speed 3 hp on both speeds motor fitted, unusual configuration, which makes the 10 Hp box grunt on start-up.

    Mike-the-Pilot ran his Mk 3a Cub off a 5 Hp nominal output Transwave rotary converter which seemed quite happy.

    I'd go for a motor swop, 6 pole rather than 4, to keep lower speed torque up. Prices don't seem to be that different these days. Inverter Drive Supermarket have good prices on the Eaton DE1 and Schneider Altivar drives at the moment. Both of which I have recently installed for folk without too much pain. DE1 doesn't have a display and is made as a simple contactor control replacement with soft start and, if needed, two speed capability. Basic installation is actually easy, gotta be against the rules, as its intended to be do-able by ordinary industrial electricians. Needs a programming widgit if factory parameters won't fly tho'.

    Clive

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    Thanks Clive! That's really useful advice!
    I'll start looking at motors once it's settled in the garage.

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    I paid for it last night and should be getting it home soon.

    The seller almost laughed when I said I thought the motor was 1hp (0.75kw), but I have read this to be true. I must admit - it looked huge. About 30cm in diameter if I remember right.

    Anyway, I have been looking at motor options, even though I don't have the actual footprint or shaft details yet.. just trying to get an idea what's out there.

    I intend to use a sensorless vector control VFD, which I understand means full torque at low speeds.

    If I want greater than 1500rpm spindle speed in the lathe though, I will need the motor to spin at ~2000rpm. I know this because the factory motor spins at 1,440 and the lathe has a maximum spindle speed of 1,000rpm. So a 2880 motor would give 2k spindle speed.

    On that basis I am thinking a 4 pole motor, but fairly powerful at 3kw in order to match the torque of the 6 pole motor that you recommended Clive. What do you think of this one? TEC IE2 3kW (4HP) 4 Pole Three Phase AC Motor 230V/400V B3 100L Frame - AC Motors (Three Phase)

    I intend to try out a Chinese SVC VFD - the HuanYang GT series (http://www.hy-electrical.com/BF/GT%2...s%20manual.PDF )

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    actually, no, scrap that. I am thinking 2.2kw. I want to try to be kind to the mains feed to my garage.. heaters, air compressor, lights, and now this. Hopefully not all on at the same time, but if the original motor is indeed 0.75kw, then a 2.2kw should be more than enough, and isn't such a big power draw on the wiring.

    TEC IE2 2.2kW (3HP) 4 Pole AC Motor 230V/400V B3 Foot Mount 100L - AC Motors (Three Phase)


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