Buying Used Cincinnati #2 Horizontal Mill

steamandsteel · Sep 17, 2018

I've ran across an old Cincinnati #2 Horizontal mill. I currently have a vertical mill, but I am wondering if I need a horizontal mill, or what I could use it for. The problem is the price is right, but the machine must weigh around 4000lbs.

It has a vise with it, along with a pile of cutters of various sizes and diameters. It has been sitting in a dry barn for 20 years and was only used by the government before that. Axes are mostly free but dry of oil.

Is this mill in decent enough condition, and is it still relevant in the modern day and age to warrant purchasing it?

johnoder · Sep 17, 2018

Nineteen Teens - - not unless you just have to have one to have past 100

If I find a scan I'll edit it in here

Here is 1923 vertical same general vintage - round over arm horizontal older still

I. E., plain spindle bearings and the whole nine yards of ANTIQUITY - like slow slow spindle speeds. 1913 #2 went 375 top end

Cincinnati started making mills in 1884, so you sort of have to expect that every now and then a real oldie will pop up

If you decide it should have a home, I will be happy to scan the related pages for you from the 1913 catalog

These are the mechanical creatures that made possible our overwhelming response to the unpleasantness that followed March of 1917

Tyrone Shoelaces · Sep 18, 2018

I've never seen one anything like as old as that one. I'm not a big fan of horizontal machines unless you have a solid run of jobs more suited to them. If you're wondering wether you need one you obviously don't.

Regards Tyrone.

TedinNorfolk · Sep 18, 2018

Tyrone is quite correct. But it is one to have if you want something historical. It is covered in detail on Lathes UK,with its vertical sibling. Also in Milling and Milling Machines by Cincinnati Co. and Machine Tools (Gresham Publishing,1912). Too good,imo,to see go to scrap.

rickseeman · Sep 18, 2018

I assume that wheel on the back is to be driven by a line shaft. This machine is before electricity.

Danny VanVoorn · Sep 18, 2018

You can't beat a horizontal for a lot of milling jobs, Heavy stock removal and slots come immediately to mind but have to agree that you shouldn't have to ask.
That machine looks to have a NMTB spindle? If so tooling is plentiful and still the standard a lot of tooling was modified from for modern machines. If you have jobs that could use it and have the room it's nice to have the option. I'm gathering from the mention of weight that you presently have a 1500-2000 Lbs. vertical mill? If so that machine will remove material at a rate that will impress.
Dan

JRIowa · Sep 18, 2018

Danny VanVoorn said:
If so that machine will remove material at a rate that will impress.

You'd need at least an 8" dia insert cutter to get close to the right surface footage. There goes another $1K.
That and a plain bearing machine. If you got it for free, you could sell for scrap and almost break even. Walk, no,run away from that one.
JR

Larry Dickman · Sep 18, 2018

JRIowa said:
You'd need at least an 8" dia insert cutter to get close to the right surface footage. There goes another $1K.
That and a plain bearing machine. If you got it for free, you could sell for scrap and almost break even. Walk, no,run away from that one.
JR

I would agree. As far as what it could be used for, the term "Artificial Reef" comes to mind

magneticanomaly · Sep 18, 2018

Your handle suggests you like old stuff, and may not be a production shop. For you, then, the horizontal will be very useful. Buy it.

Even if you are a production shop, there are many operations this mill can do much more efficiently than your vertical..and if the price is right, you can afford to tie it up with some special set-up. If there is a lot of tooling with it, there may even be a vertical attachment. Just keep the bearings oiled.

johnoder · Sep 18, 2018

That machine looks to have a NMTB spindle?

But of course that can be deceiving - for the simple reason that K&T patented the flanged and face keyed spindle nose in 1913 - and Cincinnati promptly paid them royalties to use same - all long before it was incorporated into the NMTB design.

So you could have a 11 B&S taper hole, or whatever the #2 came with - in the exact same flanged spindle nose as #50 used

This of course CAN BE altered to #50 - which I have personally done twice - but HARDLY worth the effort. Spindles of these are TOUGH, but not hard

Thumbnail is scan from K&T

Jaxian · Sep 18, 2018

For sensible count your pennies shop work? No it doesn't make sense.

For having an antique piece of functional industrial art. Oh heck yes.

Just have to decide if that works for you. I personally would love to have it as a restoration project but I have neither the time or the space so would pass on it.

But I see people restoring cars from the 1960's all the time and they are to put it kindly by today's standard of functionality, complete junk. Doesn't stop Pebble Beach from being filled with them every year at a cost that is staggering.

Think art/design, not use and you are fine.

steamandsteel · Sep 18, 2018

Thanks for all the great feedback guys. This machine is definitely old - notice the glass oilers.

I am a light production/prototype shop and am looking to expand a little bit.

You guys brought up some good points. I wouldn't buy it to scrap it, that's for sure. I wouldn't break even, or even close with 2.5cents/lb

Danny,

The vertical mill I've got now has a newer Cincinnati base with a Gorton ram and head on it. Total weight is somewhere around 5000lbs. I can cut half inch slots, full depth in seconds.

Thanks for helping me to figure if I could justify the money for this machine, and it's sounding like that's a definite no, especially considering the bearing type, tooling cost, and sheer weight. Not to mention the lack of a motor.

Speaking of Cincinnati horizontal mills, can anyone lend some expertise on fixing the powerfeed on a #3 / 207MK ? It is stuck in rapid traverse, and X won't engage, only grinds. Not sure what's wrong with it, more here:
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/gorton-tracemaster-stuck-rapid-traverse-353245/

boslab · Sep 18, 2018

I have a horizontal, I stick a big face mill straight in the spindle and use it to edge plates, eats metal, ive stuck a faceplate in and used it as a flange lathe (tool on the table), they can move a hell of a lot of metal.
Mark

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