CAT40 facemill holder with 2 inch pilot?

Phase · May 9, 2016

Well, I got this "great deal" on a 6" facemill, but it turns out it was the version for the 2" arbor/pilot. There is a 1.5" version, but... well that is not the one I got

Question: Any sources for a reasonably priced CAT40 facemill holder with a 2" pilot. I found only one source and it is pretty pricey at over $300.

Thanks.

Red James · May 10, 2016

That seems reasonable for a six inch face mill . . . wait 'till you price inserts for it, what? 10 or more inserts per?

t.jones · May 10, 2016

I have one like that . I made a sleeve. ---Trevor

Ralph_P · May 10, 2016

I don't know if this would work or not.
# 4 NST - 2 Shell End Mill Arbor

Jashley73 · May 10, 2016

It sounds like you haven't used the face,I'll yet. Why not return it, and ask for the correct cutter with the 1.5" pilot?

Phase · May 10, 2016

Red James said:
That seems reasonable for a six inch face mill . . . wait 'till you price inserts for it, what? 10 or more inserts per?

$300 is the holder. I paid $60 for the facemill. Same inserts as my others. About $14 per insert at carbide depot and much less on eBay when they occasionally show up

t.jones said:
I have one like that . I made a sleeve. ---Trevor

Any tips on that. I saw a picture of a shars holder (cough, cough) and it seems to have enough meat on the shoulder for new keys and a sleeve. Thoughts?

Ralph_P said:
I don't know if this would work or not.
# 4 NST - 2 Shell End Mill Arbor

Close, but I need CAT. I looked in that website, but CAT40 only went to 1.5. Thanks for the link though.l

Jashley73 said:
It sounds like you haven't used the face,I'll yet. Why not return it, and ask for the correct cutter with the 1.5" pilot?

I got it on eBay for $60. There is a guy selling the 1.5" model for over $700 and new it is close to $1500. Ouch!

Monarchist · May 10, 2016

Phase said:
Close, but I need CAT. I looked in that website, but CAT40 only went to 1.5. Thanks for the link though.

If you are sourcing mystery goods off ebay on a meagre budget, I do not smell an expensive CNC rig with a toolchanger in the same room.

None of my three MANUAL NMTB 40 (or so they were ID'ed in their day) needed anything to utilize CAT 40 but removal of one lug.

The reverse: dual-lug-slot 40 taper holder into a single-keyed CAT spindle dasn't need a lot of expense or monkey-motion, either.

Not so long as a Mark One human hand is doing the tool-changing and setting, anyway.

CNC has other needs, of course. Even then 'not always'.

Bill

Flying Freak · May 10, 2016

Depending where you are in terms of time Vs money you may be able to make one.
They make Cat 40 Blanks that can be picked up on ebay for fairly cheap.

If you are particularly concerned about egocentricity you may be able to hold a turning tool in a vise and use the mill spindle as a lathe...

Never done it but I don't see why it wouldn't work...

New Command USA C4X3 4 CT4 Cat 4 Milling Arbor Blank 6 GL Holder WL144 12 | eBay

Command CAT4 X4X3 4 Blank Bar Holder 1" Hole Milled $249 New | eBay

Monarchist · May 10, 2016

Flying Freak said:
Depending where you are in terms of time Vs money you may be able to make one.
They make Cat 40 Blanks that can be picked up on ebay for fairly cheap.

If you are particularly concerned about egocentricity you may be able to hold a turning tool in a vise and use the mill spindle as a lathe...

Never done it but I don't see why it wouldn't work...

New Command USA C4X3 4 CT4 Cat 4 Milling Arbor Blank 6 GL Holder WL144 12 | eBay

Command CAT4 X4X3 4 Blank Bar Holder 1" Hole Milled $249 New | eBay

Sumbody - I disremember who - actually sells ready-made (and hardened & ground) bushings. For this very purpose, not table-saws or the like. Hazard a guess this ain't the first time such were found useful.

Prolly cost as much as the $78 40-taper already linked-to, though.

Bill

Phase · May 10, 2016

Monarchist said:
Sumbody - I disremember who - actually sells ready-made (and hardened & ground) bushings. For this very purpose, not table-saws or the like. Hazard a guess this ain't the first time such were found useful.

Prolly cost as much as the $78 40-taper already linked-to, though.

Bill

Great. I'll check the exact measurements and look for a hardened steel bushing. Chances are I'll only need to replace the keys and perhaps do minimal fitting on the bushing itself. Thanks!

Flying Freak · May 11, 2016

Phase said:
Great. I'll check the exact measurements and look for a hardened steel bushing. Chances are I'll only need to replace the keys and perhaps do minimal fitting on the bushing itself. Thanks!

As a quick fix i wonder how hard it would be to use an oilite bushing as an adapter sleeve.

McMaster-Carr

Not sure what static load capacity would be but I doubt youd ever really see 6 000 lb load generated by the X or Y axis on a mill.

Monarchist · May 11, 2016

Flying Freak said:
As a quick fix i wonder how hard it would be to use an oilite bushing as an adapter sleeve.

McMaster-Carr

Not sure what static load capacity would be but I doubt youd ever really see 6 000 lb load generated by the X or Y axis on a mill.

Noooo... not with an inserted facemill, I would not. I'd buy the new 40-taper holder, but n'er mind.

If one is to use a bushing, it should be purpose-made to tight spec's. Properly hardened as well.

It is difficult enough already holding multi-component tooling DN on-centre so the work is equally shared by all teeth/inserts without introducing a soft bushing into the game.

That could turn the multi-toothed cutter into a fly-cutter with onboard 'spare tires', so to speak.

Not such a big deal for a hobbyist or seldom-used repair shop limping along with pile of resharpened (or just plain dull..) HSS cutters inherited or acquired for peanuts.

Sorta defeats any gain as to a 'bargain' on an inserted cutter intended to be more productive.

Bill

adama · May 11, 2016

^ why does it need hardening??????? Just use something prehard to make it, 30-40 HRC is plenty, i doubt you will find the cutter body is harder than that and its subject to chip wear and tear!

Monarchist · May 11, 2016

adama said:
^ why does it need hardening??????? Just use something prehard to make it, 30-40 HRC is plenty, i doubt you will find the cutter body is harder than that and its subject to chip wear and tear!

"properly". That weren't exactly talking 'glass hard' was it?

And because.. when folks don' wanna even pop for a holder that already fits... and sintered Bronze(ish) Oilite starts being bandied about (cut that shit with a dull screwdriver blade or shatter it with pliers..)

Next thing yah know someone figures 10L is hard enough... or decides type K copper tubing might make a cheaper spacer ring.

And it is a 6" insert-mothership, after all. May as well not make a marginal situation any worse.

Bill

ewlsey · May 11, 2016

So you are going to use a 6" face mill on a 40 taper? That should be fun.

I run a 4" on a 50 taper and I can get 150% spindle load.

D Nelson · May 11, 2016

Sometimes I use a large face mill real shallow on the last pass so there is no parting line on the part it just looks nicer if the face mill is larger than part.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Monarchist · May 11, 2016

D Nelson said:
Sometimes I use a large face mill real shallow on the last pass so there is no parting line on the part it just looks nicer if the face mill is larger than part.

If you have the patience and the time to apply it... nicer yet if you stop and shim one insert (only) a tad 'proud' of the others. Thinks it is a fly-cutter, then. With rather better balance, even.

Bill

Monarchist · May 11, 2016

ewlsey said:
So you are going to use a 6" face mill on a 40 taper? That should be fun.

I run a 4" on a 50 taper and I can get 150% spindle load.

Dunno... as tooling-miserly as the OP's plan is so far?

He may be tommy-bar-ing the b***h just to save wear on the motor or such..

Phase · May 11, 2016

Thank you very much for the heads up. I'll get the real holder and forget the bushing.

Also thank you for the heads up on the power requirements. I run the numbers on the manufacturer's power calculator and a shallow cut (0.1") in mild steel (120 HB) with a fully engaged cutter would take 7.2 hp. Don't want to fully trust the calculator, but that is a reference at least. Details attached.

Thanks!!

Monarchist · May 12, 2016

Phase said:
I run the numbers on the manufacturer's power calculator and a shallow cut (0.1") in mild steel (120 HB) with a fully engaged cutter would take 7.2 hp. Don't want to fully trust the calculator, but that is a reference at least.

If you mentioned what machine and its features you are working with, I missed it.

If you care to add that info to what you've shared, I'd bet there is one or more hands here who have, or have had WHATEVER make, model, and HP it is, common or rare.

I am not he, but you might get more specific advice that way.

Bill

CAT40 facemill holder with 2 inch pilot?

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