Cincinnati HydraShift 15 Lathe - Try to repair -or- Scrap?

Hello,

Some of you guys might be well versed on the Cincinnati HydraShift lathes and can offer me some advice. I have a HydraShift 15 bought some years back. Sadly, I have been too busy to even get it powered up - until yesterday. Lathes works, kind of. A few speed ranges don't work. Spindle locks and will not turn. Removed the cover, removed the valve assy. I found a gear out of position with its key about to fall out but stuck. This gear is on the shaft below the clutch shaft and towards the front of the head. It looks like a lot of work to remove it. I have no idea how to remove all the shafts. Perhaps there might be a service manual with detailed procedures? Also the taper on the clutch drive shaft where the pulley mounts is damaged. It could be welded and reground / recut and a new key-way machined in. The question is: Is it worth it? Maybe I should just find a newer / better lathe. I need a good lathe.

Also - Is there a drain plug somewhere to drain the oil from the head?

For some reason the attached pictures are rotated, but when I view them on my pc they are not. Odd...

Advice?

Thank you, David

Hi David:
With old machines like this you have to decide if the rebuilt product will have been worth the road to get there.
Is a reconditioned one a good machine...well there are people out there who love them.
Others not so much, but the complainers mostly seem to have a beef with the cost and complexity of fixing them, not with the quality of the machine when it's actually done.

When I decided I needed a premier toolroom lathe, I rebuilt a Monarch 10EE...it was worth it but it took fucking forever and cost a pile.
I refused to rebuild it's slightly bigger but flimsier Taiwanese predecessor...it wouldn't have been worth it no matter how excellent the rebuild.

The Hydrashift 15's I've seen on the internet look medium stout to me...not a Pacemaker by any stretch, but not a Southbend either.
Most American lathes of that vintage were pretty heavily built, so if it's not clapped out and only has drive problems, you may have a jewel under the gunk and crap.

However, you can buy a brand new 16 x 40 lathe that will make chips too for maybe 15 grand Canadian, but it will be an Asian import and not even remotely as good as a fully rebuilt piece of American iron from the latter half of the last century.
It likely won't hold whatever accuracy it has as long, it likely will be rough and clumsy to use, it likely won't be able to take the same kind of cut, and it will likely break in shitty, inconvenient ways from the effects of crappy quality control rather than crappy design.

Typically a moderately worn old lathe like this will take 250 hours to do the full meal deal on, and maybe 40 hours to do just a drive line fix.
Is that kind of time commitment worth it to you.

Do you have time and the support equipment to even take this on? (Remember, just the headstock alone weighs more than you can pick up by hand, so if you have to take it off without a hoist, you have a problem.)
If you do, do you want to spend it screwing around on an old lathe?
Those are questions best answered by you, but if it were me, I'd look long and hard at what kind of facility you have for rebuilding old machines and how much you want a project hanging around your neck for a year.

Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining

We have a 15" Hydrashift and has been a good machine for us. Plenty of power for roughing, pretty decent speed range for any parts in the machines size range from 14" diameter discs to 1" diameter shafts( I really like the ability for a machine this size to have an almost 2000 (don't remember the exact # at the moment)spindle speed. What Marcus said- budget for newer machine is? How much is your time worth? Do you have the skill set to do the repair work? Nothing wrong with learning though!
Are the bed/ways in good shape or worn badly? Do you already have tooling for it? You can go buy a POS import and never be happy with it possibly. What's your expectation? What will be the use of the lathe- light repair work or ripping gobs stock off a part and then finishing it to size or?
Advantage of repairing a machine like this is if it goes down in the future, you know how to work on it!

good luck.

Small World

I have had this one sitting around for years and just today put it up for sale on Facebook. Crazy the first thing I see in the Forum is the same lathe. Several years ago I had the bed ground and every thing scrapped in. I purchased a couple other lathes shortly after and really never was used. Nice lathe just a little to big for the work I like to do.

ORAGRAG said:

I have had this one sitting around for years and just today put it up for sale on Facebook. Crazy the first thing I see in the Forum is the same lathe. Several years ago I had the bed ground and every thing scrapped in. I purchased a couple other lathes shortly after and really never was used. Nice lathe just a little to big for the work I like to do.

Click to expand...

What is the price and where is it located?

Thanks everyone for the input. I need some kind of general purpose lathe. The plan is, when I retire to build a small (25' foot) steam boat. This lathe would be great if the head could be repaired. I am a tool and die maker (mold maker) and have access to pretty much anything I need. My problem right now is how to take this thing apart? I don't want to make a mistake and damage something. Maybe it is straight forward but so far I have not seen the light. Is there a manual showing how to take it apart? Any advice???

Thanks, David

location and price

Superbowl said:

What is the price and where is it located?

Click to expand...

Thinking $5,000. Located in Minneapolis MN

Hi again David:
So as a toolbreaker, you know all you need to about what's involved and we don't need to insult your intelligence with the basic basic stuff.
As you've posted, what you need first of all is a parts manual or some kind of guidance about how to take it apart without screwing it up.
About all you can do is keep publishing your need until you can connect with someone who can help you unless you're OK with just taking out all the bolts, turning it upside down and shaking it.

First things first...are you satisfied it's worth rescuing.
Ways good?
Spindle good?
Saddle, tailstock compound good?

If all that checks out, you can start taking bits off it...I assume the goofy transmission is your biggest concern.

Post another thread in the Cincinnatti Milacron Kearney Trecker VN USA Heavy Iron Forum and post another in the Machine Reconditioning and Scraping Forum and see if you can shake some information loose there.
For all you know someone is out there doing exactly what you're planning and has the knowledge already gathered.
Maybe talk to a few rebuilders too and see if one will be kind to you...many are!

If you've got the coin, you could even just drop the whole problem or part of it in their lap and it might work out cheaper than going it alone.
Ask them how to take it apart and then send the main bits to them for re-scraping and way grinding
Build a nice mold on contract for your boss, and you'll have the cash, and you'll be spending your time and effort on something you're already equipped to do.

Good luck in your search.

Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining

There are currently 2 Cincinnati Hydrashift service manuals and parts list publications available for the LR series machines available for download from the Vintage Machinery website. They might not be the exact model you're looking for, but should at least give you enough information to decide whether or not you want to tackle the job.

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/177/19596.pdf

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/177/17744.pdf

They do have a maintenance section, and a good parts breakdown section. To me it doesn't look that overly complicated, however I spent a lifetime doing this sort of work. If you decide to take on the job be sure to take hundreds of pictures along the way. Many times the manuals gloss over parts orientation, and often miss a key piece of the puzzle.

Here's a link to the index of publications available for Cincinnati lathes on the Vintage Machinery website. I didn't look through all of them, but some might be of use to you.

Cincinnati Lathe & Tool Co. - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org

A few years ago I rebuilt the Worthington Drive on my Sheldon machine. It wasn't nearly as complex as the Hydrashift, but I still took lots of pictures. As luck would have it life got in the way and I had to let it set for a few weeks. I was glad I took the pictures when it came time to reassemble and reinstall the unit.

Thanks for the information. I had already found those two manuals. They don't really give a procedure on how to disassemble the head but maybe after studying the exploded views I will be able to figure it out. I appreciate the input. I need a decent lathe to build my steam engines. Doing it at work is not very convenient. I'll post something if I figure it out...

ORAGRAG said:

I have had this one sitting around for years and just today put it up for sale on Facebook. Crazy the first thing I see in the Forum is the same lathe. Several years ago I had the bed ground and every thing scrapped in. I purchased a couple other lathes shortly after and really never was used. Nice lathe just a little to big for the work I like to do.

Click to expand...

this still for sale and Where you located?

I worked at a place that had one back in the 90s. It was medium duty, and very accurate turning long shafts( 6 foot) with a steady rest .
They told me, that there were 2 of them in there, and the other one was rough and finally went out.
None of the local reqpirw shops wanted to touch it and they thought it was too complicated ( scared) of it.
The chuck, steady rest, etc was saved and they scrapped it.
I also heard about another shop that scrapped a LeBlond Servoshift because it seemed too complicated.