Clausing 8540 horizontal mill motor

barryw · Jun 24, 2019

Hi all, I’m not sure if this is the right place to post this - I don’t see a Clausing specific forum.

I am restoring a Clausing 8540 that is in pretty bad shape, especially the electrical. The mill was in a fire and is pretty rusty. All the name plates are illegible.
I am worried that the heat of the fire may have damaged the motor windings so I am considering looking for a suitable replacement. I believe it is a 1.5 HP 3 phase motor with a resilient mount and a 7/8ths shaft.
I am wondering if anyone knows what RPM these mills motors were designed to work at?
A single phase motor might be a good solution here since the mill has the vari drive speed control so that would make the V in VFD a bit redundant.
I may hook up the motor to a VFD to see what happens ( while standing well away from the motor [emoji1787])

Here is a pic of the old girl...

Regards,
Barry

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thermite · Jun 24, 2019

barryw said:
... worried that the heat of the fire may have damaged the motor windings

It might not have. Not ALL the paint was even burnt-off your mill. Motors are meant to run at temps higher than the boiling point of water and are "baked" at even higher temps.

I'd still replace it - 3-P motors that small are not terribly costly, nor is their shipping.

But for a different reason than (possible) fire damage.

MUCH better to have a modern "inverter duty" rated motor in case you plan to use a VFD.

RPM is determined by "pole count", this - for the low speeds such mills ran at, will not be a 2pole (nominal 3600 RPM) but rather a 4-pole (nominal 1800 RPM), "maybe" even 6 or 8-pole, for lower-yet input RPM.

It won't be hard to figure that out.

ALL your wiring and the controls and such ON it should be replaced with new. Tons of stuff in the market that can work, and cheaply.

barryw · Jun 24, 2019

Thanks thermite, you are right, the motor is protected by the pedestal and when I did pull the motor, the wires inside the motor wiring box look pretty good...

Much better than the external boxes...

I will look into the price of a replacement motor. But I am curious of your thoughts regarding a single phase motor? The reeves drive will take care of the spindle speed so really, all I need is fwd/reverse at the right rpm (and h.p.)
The cost of a VFD and a motor adds up quickly.
And yes, all the wiring/switches will be replaced.

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thermite · Jun 24, 2019

barryw said:
.. thoughts regarding a single phase motor? The reeves drive will take care of the spindle speed so really, all I need is fwd/reverse at the right rpm (and h.p.)
The cost of a VFD and a motor adds up quickly.

I might even use Dee Cee, but only because I have a major already-paid-for stash of them (and controllers..)

Single-phase in that application will work just fine [1]. Be aware there are MANY 1-P motor types.
Plenty of info out there as to "selecting" motor types.

You'll want a ball-bearing industrial continuous-duty one or at least "farm duty" with a generous slip allowance. It will probably be capacitor-start-capacitor run with "two bumps" on the exterior of the case. You don't need it to be optimized to START a heavy load. It is advantageous rather, that it can SUSTAIN a heavy load whilst in the cut.

BTW.. Used 3-P motors are low-risk. Used 1-P motors are high risk. Very.
Too much else on your plate to divert to over-work on the avoidable risks.

I'd buy new, even try to up-size the HP rating a tad - if it could fit.
Not to over-power the mill. To insure enough reserve for smooth and cool running under working loads.

[1] 1-P juice pumps work OK, too. I'm not a believer in milling "dry" in general, surely not on these old slow HSS-era warhorses. Stinky-dark sulfurized lubes were in their very DNA

awake · Jun 25, 2019

No input to offer with regard to the motor, but I am curious about the price - how much did they pay you to haul it away?

Bob-J-H · Jun 25, 2019

Man, that is going to be a project.

barryw · Jun 25, 2019

Yep, I wanted a project for the summer - definitely got that! Nothing like sweating over lead paint in the North Carolina humidity.
Actually, the guts of the machine look pretty good to me.
Time will tell.

I paid $150 for it.

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4squarelogicseo1 · Jun 27, 2019

Guys thanks for sharing such information.

Chip Chester · Jun 27, 2019

$150? Better cash their check quick before they re-consider.

Oh wait -- you paid them??

Just joshin'. Looks like it'll be a summer of fun, and cheaper than the health club.

Mike Henry · Jun 29, 2019

I happen to have a spare 3-phase motor that was original to a Clausing 8500-series horizontal, in case you are interested. It's probably worth the cost to ship it you from here in Illinois, though. I'd want $35 plus shipping.

barryw · Jun 30, 2019

Well here she is in a pile of castings ready to get media blasted. Yes, I’ll cover the machined surfaces before I bring it to the blasting place. Any suggestions on the best way to protect the machined surfaces? I was thinking that ac ducting tape might offer some protection? But honestly I have no experience with media blasting. Just don’t want to have to deal with chemical stripping or a month with an angle grinder attached to my right hand.
The casting yielded its bearings without too much of a problem and the spindle looks to be in good shape. Wish I had a set of rollers to check it out. Anyway, I’ll see if I can find new bearing cones and cups. They seem fairly common at first glance on my phone.

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barryw · Oct 1, 2019

Quick update and parts request on the small 8540 horizontal mill.
Here are some photos of the current state of the mill. I am finished with the main spindle/knee/saddle/table. (At least until the scraping)
I am working on the motor and reeves drive now.

My request is - does anyone have some milling arbors for this mill? The 30 taper arbors seem fairly rare.

Barry

Try to rotate the pics...

Terry Keeley · Oct 1, 2019

Incredible job!

Maybe you can rotate your photos?

awake · Oct 1, 2019

I'm sorry, but that canNOT be the same machine ... can it?

Great looking results, looks like you've spent the summer well!

greggv · Oct 1, 2019

that's a HELL of a good job!

piedmontg · Oct 3, 2019

hi

You can find them on ebay, but you will likely have to modify the bearing in the out support. I had a machine that used a Bison with a modified bearing.

NMTB 30 Horiztonal Mill Arbor 1” Milling Machine 10” Long | eBay

Also call around to used machinery dealers

Bob

JST · Oct 3, 2019

Since you are not afraid (obviously) of some work, you can MAKE the damn arbor in a day from a chunk of 4140 (for the classy job) or even just regular 1018. Spacers are available new from sources like Victor Machinery.

I had to do that for one of my personal machines, because MT3 arbors are pretty much unobtanium. Just a bit of work to get the taper right, And you can put whatever end bearing you need on one you make.

barryw · Oct 3, 2019

JST said:
Since you are not afraid (obviously) of some work, you can MAKE the damn arbor in a day from a chunk of 4140 (for the classy job) or even just regular 1018. Spacers are available new from sources like Victor Machinery.

I had to do that for one of my personal machines, because MT3 arbors are pretty much unobtanium. Just a bit of work to get the taper right, And you can put whatever end bearing you need on one you make.

Yes, I am thinking of doing that to have a 1.25 inch arbor since I have a lot of cutters with that bore. Might be a nice Sunday project.

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The Gentleman · Oct 4, 2019

I can not believe it is the same machine . . . SUPER JOB

toolmaker54 · Mar 26, 2020

I noticed in the very first picture of this thread
You posted you have three overarm arbor supports one on the two rams with the arbor in it
And two laying in the coolent- chip pan below the knee
I am interested in one of those if you could part with one

Clausing 8540 horizontal mill motor

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