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    Yup, we are sending over $1 billion overseas as part of the 8.3 billion for CV-19....why ?

    1000 navy personnel send to Africa for Ebola why ?

    To act as "walking petri dishes" and the military's "Doc Mengle's" could play with cures. All illegal with actual U.S. citizens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Yup, we are sending over $1 billion overseas as part of the 8.3 billion for CV-19....why ?

    1000 navy personnel send to Africa for Ebola why? . . .
    Same reason you want a fireman to show up at the burning house next door - otherwise your home is next.

    Seriously, Digger, try to understand the success we had with Ebola.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    Same reason you want a fireman to show up at the burning house next door - otherwise your home is next.

    Seriously, Digger, try to understand the success we had with Ebola.
    Yes, whenever we have any problems, I see many of these countries helping us.

    "house next door" seriously right back at ya. Strong borders.

    Do you know what those people did to our doctors and medical personnel that
    where saving lives ? Please recall they killed several of them.

    Pull out complete, close the boarder and let them all die off.

    Problem solved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Yes, whenever we have any problems, I see many of these countries helping us.

    "house next door" seriously right back at ya. Strong borders.

    Do you know what those people did to our doctors and medical personnel that
    where saving lives ? Please recall they killed several of them.

    Pull out complete, close the boarder and let them all die off.

    Problem solved.
    Yes, more or less the "Final Solution" I guess.

    If anyone wants to know a bit more about the extremely dedicated, terribly underfunded, doggedly hard working folks presently risking their lives daily battling Ebola, I would recommend the "Pandemic" series on Netflix.

    If Ebola (good example) is not contained in areas in which it is now endemic, it is certain to visit us big time. It already has on a very limited basis and only on a limited basis due to the timely intervention of knowledgeable people dedicated to protecting us from Ebola and the like. With 3000 flights daily into NYC, as an example, closing the border may be not so easy.

    Denis

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Yes, whenever we have any problems, I see many of these countries helping us.

    "house next door" seriously right back at ya. Strong borders.

    Aid offered by foreign countries and groups to help the U.S. with Hurricane Katrina relief efforts, according to the State Department:

    • Afghanistan: $100,000
    • Albania: $300,000 pledged
    • Armenia: $200,000 pledged
    • Australia: $7.6 million
    • Austria: tarps, camp beds
    • Azerbaijan: $500,000
    • Bahamas: $50,000 pledged
    • Bahrain: $5 million pledged
    • Bangladesh: $1 million pledged
    • Belgium: operations teams, generators, water pumps, nine-member logistical team to work with the Red Cross
    • Bosnia/Herzegovina: $6,414 pledged
    • Cambodia: $20,000 pledged
    • Canada: $5 million pledged to the hurricane relief fund headed by former Presidents George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton, two Griffin helicopters, search and rescue teams, Air Canada evacuation flights, supplies, security team, three Canadian forces ships with three Sea King helicopters
    • China: $5.1 million, 1,000 tents, 600 generators, bed sheets
    • Cyprus: $50,000
    • Djibouti: $50,000 pledged
    • Equatorial Guinea: $500,000 pledged
    • Eupropean Commission: Civil Protection Cooperative Mechanism activated
    • France: 600 tents, supplies
    • Gabon: $500,000 pledged
    • Georgia: $50,000
    • Germany: high-speed pumps, supplies
    • Greece: two cruise ships
    • Hungary: $5,000
    • Iceland: $500,000 pledged to the Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund
    • International Committee of the Red Cross: Web-based tracking system for displaced people
    • India: $5 million; 3,000 each of personal-hygiene kits, blankets and sheets; 150 tarps
    • Iraq: $1 million pledged to the Red Cross via the Red Crescent
    • Ireland: $1 million euro (about $1.24 million U.S.)
    • Italy: generators, water pumps and purifiers, tents, supplies
    • Japan: $200,000, $844,000 in supplies and private pledges of more than $1 million
    • Kenya: $100,000
    • Kuwait: $100 million plus an additional $400 million in oil products
    • Malaysia: $1 million to the Red Cross
    • Maldives: $25,000 to the Red Cross
    • Mauritania: $200,000 from the American Mauritania Business Council to the Red Cross
    • Mexico: 45 truckloads of supplies, transport vehicles, two field kitchens, two helicopters
    • Mongolia: $50,000 pledged
    • Morocco: $500,000 pledged
    • Nepal: $25,000 pledged
    • Netherlands: Levee inspection team to assist Army Corps of Engineers, water pumps, frigate
    • New Zealand: $1.4 million to the Red Cross
    • Nigeria: $1 million pledged
    • Norway: $1.54 million in cash and supplies
    • Oman: $15 million
    • Organization of American States: $25,000, created fund for donations from member states to the International Committee of the Red Cross
    • Pakistan: $1 million pledged to the Red Cross, supplies
    • Palau: $50,000 pledged plus $50,000 donor drive
    • Papua New Guinea: $10,000 to the Red Cross
    • Qatar: $100 million pledged
    • Republic of Korea: $30 million, supplies
    • Russia: air transport, generators, tents, blankets, water, water pumps, supplies
    • Sao Tome and Principe: $18,000 pledged
    • Saudi Arabia: $5 million from Aramco, $250,000 from AGFUND
    • Singapore: four helicopters
    • Spain: relief supplies
    • Sri Lanka: $25,000 to the Red Cross
    • Sweden: telecommunications equipment
    • Taiwan: $2 million, supplies
    • Thailand: blankets, supplies
    • United Arab Emirates: $100 million pledged
    • Uganda: $200,000 pledged
    • United Kingdom: relief supplies
    • Venezuela: up to $1 million to the Red Cross and state governments
    • Vietnam: $100,000 to victims
    • Yemen: $100,000 to the Red Cross

    SOURCE: State Department

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Yes, whenever we have any problems, I see many of these countries helping us.

    . . . Pull out complete, close the boarder and let them all die off.

    Problem solved.
    We wouldn't have a United States if the French hadn't helped us way back then. Aussies here will probably know they regularly help fight wildfires here (and we in return). Heck we wouldn't even have Arabic numerals and a zero to count our wealth, where it not for civilizations elsewhere.

    But, let's go with your notion that we should close our borders to the rest of the world and let them all, as you say, die off.

    First of all most of the US cases to date are from US citizens traveling abroad. About 40% of US citizens own a passport. 93 million of us traveled abroad in 2019. Buy, hey, let's lock ourselves inside the 48 states (Hawaii way to risky and you can see Russia from Alaska). No more travel. Let's be like, say, North Korea.

    Of course, no more Olympics for the US. All those sweaty people from other countries will be competing.

    Now let's get to our good economic times. Let's pull every company and every bit of trade back into the US. Can't imagine why we've been urging free trade on others for all these years.

    What has fueled the strength of both the S&P and Dow has been overseas profits. Kiss Apple, Caterpillar, Deere, GM, etc. goodbye. Pull back into a shell and look toward to a real crash. Kiss whatever savings you have goodbye.

    No more world economy denominated in dollars. Might as well have Chinese for the world's lingua franca (damn that "mixture of Italian with French, Greek, Arabic, and Spanish, formerly used in the Levant").

    Like to eat? About half our fresh fruit and a third of our veggies come from abroad. A big chunk of the rest comes from California - which some here seem to think is another country. Speaking of gifts from abroad -- most everything we eat owes some of its genetic origins from abroad. So, we'd have to cut off all that trade. Then find millions of citizens who want to be farm workers here in the U.S.A.

    You might be pissed off at prescription drug price gouging - and maybe hope to live a bit longer? About the only competition and relief comes from generics - with something like 90% of those made outside the US. US companies won't be filling that gap any time soon - the profits are too great the way things are. These days all sorts of medical advances - not just generics - come from research in other countries.

    You probably like owning a car or truck? Every car now has imported components. And while we're busy pretending to be self-sufficient and having nothing to do with Muslims -- we still kiss ass for Arab oil. That, at least, is something we might agree is worth changing ASAP.

    Want to have appliances, consumer electronics, a computer, phone, etc.? Sorry, we'd have to interact with other nations.

    Well, at least we could sit back and listen to, say, the Three Tenors (for opera buffs), Crap, two of them are Italians (now spreading COVID-19) and the third downright Hispanic. Well, there's the Beatles and Rolling Stones. Crap, British. Well, at least there are movies. Damn again -- seems that some of the world's most beautiful actresses and best actors are Aussies, Brits, French, Italian, etc. Reading and literature? Well, there's the Bible. Crap - written by foreigners. At least we still have country music - long as we don't let types like Shania Twain and Keith Urban into the country. Could have said something like "at least we still have bluegrass and soul" -- but seems we owe others for that as well.

    Could probably go on. What you're essentially proposing is the Stone Age, with tribes not traveling much further than a horse can go. And even then, pandemics and disease eventually make their way around the world.

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    Mark

    The list of pledges and assistance reveals the basic goodness in people around the globe.
    It would be interesting to follow up on the pledges and how that assistance hit the streets to aid those most affected.

    I also would wonder how the benevolence would flow if the same threat or disruption was present in each of those countries at the same time.

    Fear tightens purse strings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    Personally, I think there's a chance we'll get a handle on this and contain it to, say 500 cases and 40 deaths.
    I'll take that bet. It was 60 less than a week ago, 325 this morning. I think you'll hit 500 by Monday.

    Let me get this straight - you are charging for testing ? In a country with the world's most expensive health care ? And people laugh at the numbers out of China ? Whoo boy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    I'll take that bet. It was 60 less than a week ago, 325 this morning. I think you'll hit 500 by Monday.

    Let me get this straight - you are charging for testing ? In a country with the world's most expensive health care ? And people laugh at the numbers out of China ? Whoo boy.
    I'm not taking that bet either. Said "there is a chance." This was a nod to those minimizing it - there is some lower bound.

    It's pretty clear our administration lost the month it had to get ahead of this. Too busy dismissing it as a liberal hoax and a chance to reinforce a close-the-borders theme as the solution to every problem. I also suggested a chance of a two worse scenarios and optimistically guesstimate we end up with the middle one, rather than the larger pandemic.

    Have no idea of how bad it will get for both the economy and the older and more vulnerable among us - but am confident life will go on (albeit without all of us and the economy disrupted for a longer time than need be).

    I don't doubt that Trump's detractors will see it as one more reason to dump him, but it was ultimately Trump who treated it as a political rather than a public health matter and spent several weeks in denial and falsehoods. Go back a bit in this thread and one can find many swallowing that line -- just close the border, go to work (you can get well there, you know), keep the Dow up, don't listen to the doctors, and this will go just away.

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    Some of the comments I see here make me sorry that I posted in this thread earlier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    And in the U.S., doctors on TV are telling people without symptoms NOT to wear masks, thereby saving the masks for health care workers, sick people, and the immunocompromised such as transplant patients. These are not Trump doctors. Many of them are medical consultants on channels that HATE Trump and would never credit him for anything good. Their medically sound advice is meant to prevent hoarding.
    So why do you have hoarding ? It was a little difficult to find masks on the first day when they closed everything. Most of the little stores were out, but by walking around a little you could find some. Enough to get you through a few days, at least. Some places had lines, but they got masks.

    And then, two or three days later, it wasn't a problem. 1.2 billion people, give or take a few. Plus they aren't expensive ... about $4 for 25 pcs, unless you want the cool designer ones. Those are about a buck fifty apiece.

    With a month to prepare, you didn't do anything ? That was smart.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl
    don't pollute our air
    With what, a little bit of competence ? I wouldn't dream of it

    We are not China, we will not become China, and in many cases copying them would be the worst thing we could do.
    Obviously. You can't even supply enough masks for people to wear in public to help reduce the spread of disease. 350 million people, one-fourth the supply problem, can't handle it. Incompetent. Then you charge for testing ? how much, $50,000 or so ?

    You make a simple public health problem into a political mud-throwing contest. Good work.

    Yeah, you're not China, that's for sure. Third world shithole is what comes to mind ....

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM
    it was ultimately Trump ...
    Don't think so. The whole populace has gone fruitcake, in one direction or the other. This is a fairly simple problem with logical measures to be taken, but instead, people are throwing mud. It's pretty simple. Like, get off the bus, Gus. Make a plan, Stan, then get yourself free.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    . . .The whole populace has gone fruitcake, in one direction or the other. This is a fairly simple problem with logical measures to be taken, but instead, people are throwing mud. It's pretty simple. Like, get off the bus, Gus. Make a plan, Stan, then get yourself free.
    Most people here seem pretty rational. Breakfast with friends as usual this morning - still a bit early to avoid that. Within walking distance of that restaurant is a store that still has lots of the cheap masks on the shelf - packs of 50 of them for $4.99. No price gouging. I bought one pack of those two weeks ago, just in case. Be useful around the shop anyhow. Places are sold out of hand sanitizer -- but it's reasonable enough to buy that. It will get back in stock. People ARE just making plans.

    The current advice for older folks in the Bay Area is to avoid attending events with more than 50 people present. Just a rough statistical guesstimate of the present risk - we've had people with the virus in contact with others for a while. As more cases emerge here and other places around the country, it could become increasingly important to limit contact. Had we been on top of this earlier, with ample and free testing, we might already have been ahead of this. Eventually, we will be.

    On the other hand, here's our President advising the country just ten days ago (Feb 26), saying there are only 15 cases in America (ignoring all those cruise line passengers about to be sent to populated areas against the advice of the CDC) and "The 15 within a couple of days is going to be down close to zero." Earlier it was a hoax. Ten days ago, a minor blip and all the medical advisors were wrong. Now we're playing catch up.

    Compared to the previously maligned handling of Ebola (4 cases in the US, 1 death, a less costly response headed by healthcare professionals) we're now at over 300 cases, 17 deaths, medical professionals flatly contradicted, and what will ultimately be a far costlier response both medically and to the economy. That one (Ebola) -- with a far higher mortality rate -- was pretty much stopped in its tracks by public health pros leading the effort. But, hey, our guy knows more than the generals, the Fed, climate scientists, trade and supply chain pros, nuke negotiators, and medical profs combined.

    While it's true that many may be overly alarmed, the pattern of deception and lack of planning at the top is pretty much a root cause. Would have been very simple to have public health pros deal with this from the start, rather than call it a hoax for a couple weeks and minimize (aka lie about it) it for a couple more, then put Pence "in charge" (more a press secretary at this point, honestly reporting we don't have enough test kits or masks for health workers) instead of an actual public health pro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post


    Obviously. You can't even supply enough masks for people to wear in public to help reduce the spread of disease. 350 million people, one-fourth the supply problem, can't handle it. Incompetent. Then you charge for testing ? how much, $50,000 or so?...
    Yeah, you're not China, that's for sure. Third world shithole is what comes to mind ....
    Gordon, please log in under your own name.

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    Once again, ..... We are not China.

    One factor that has severely hindered efforts in other countries is China's lack of candor in releasing data about this outbreak.

    What has been gleaned from other countries is that for the most part (other than Iran) elderly Asian men seem to be the most hard hit.

    In the case of China many of the victims were likely heavy smokers and there is also a good chance they may have had occupational exposure in the past to substances that compromise respiratory functions.

    Here in the U.S. we have vulnerable populations that get hard hit by viruses and bacteria every winter. One man I know has been hospitalized twice in 2 winters due to respiratory complications. He is a diabetic and a smoker who also has a few drinks on occasion. All three are known to increase risk and while he is a friend whom we would miss we recognize (as does he) that his lifestyle choices increase the odds he will die from a lung infection. One factor that is not against him is that he gets the full round of flu shots every year. People die every winter from complications of colds and flu. It is sad but an inevitable fact of life that there is only so much we can do to save vulnerable people. I am certain at this point that this virus has been circulating within the U.S. and other parts of the world for at least a month now, perhaps even since late 2019. Apparently many people have already become sick and then recovered without problems never knowing that it wasn't one of the more common illnesses. This is one of the factors that makes tracing contacts difficult.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Once again, ..... We are not China.
    Right. You haven't even tested for the virus but you think your numbers are so wonderful. Twit.

    One factor that has severely hindered efforts in other countries is China's lack of candor in releasing data about this outbreak.
    You're just running off at the mouth, World Health Organization has been working hand in glove with Chinese counterparts, have been totally satisfied.

    What has been gleaned from other countries is that for the most part (other than Iran) elderly Asian men seem to be the most hard hit.

    In the case of China many of the victims were likely heavy smokers and there is also a good chance they may have had occupational exposure in the past to substances that compromise respiratory functions.
    You are such a dork. Stats from Italy are following the same form as the ones from China. Plus the real people from the WHO who have written about this say the numbers from China are excellent. TR posted a good link a page or so back. Try reading something by a person who doesn't pull their statements out their ass.

    PeteM, rumour is that it costs an uninsured person in the US who gets this virus about $70,000 ? Is that going to be true ? Roughly something like 20% of the people who get it have to be hospitalized for respiratory problems, so if that bears out in other places, could be trouble ?

    I seriously hope it's a wintertime virus like the rest, that'd be the best thing to happen right now. And an early spring. Fingers crossed.


    btw, so far the US has 340 known cases with 17 dead. That's 5%, using the World's Most Trustworthy Statistics.

    Italy is currently at 4.2%

    So, at this point, it's at least five times as deadly as Scottl is claiming in the US. (If you use the .1% figure for flu mortalities, then it's fifty times as deadly. But I don't feel like rubbing it in.)

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelP View Post
    Gordon, please log in under your own name.
    Gordon, thermite and I are the same person .... that'd make Three Faces of Eve into a children's bedtime story

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    Best takeaway from this morning's newscasts.

    "Panic is spreading faster than the virus."

    EG, your hostility to the U.S. and its citizens is well known as is your devotion to China. You more than anyone else on this forum seem to be attempting to incite panic over this. Most health officials here are starting to believe that there are a lot more cases with such mild symptoms that they haven't been reported or counted so the mortality rate may actually be lower than for the flu.

    ================================================== =======================
    Coronavirus Hysteria vs Reality

    Masks can't stop the coronavirus in the US, but hysteria has led to bulk-buying, price-gouging and serious fear for the future

    Coronavirus hysteria is leading to mass mask shortages. For health care officials, they're essential. For Chinese Americans, they're a lifeline home. - CNN


    Dr. Drew ... Media's Hysterical, Dishonest Over Coronavirus ... And It Pisses Me Off!!!

    Dr. Drew Angry at Media for Misreporting Coronavirus, Creating Hysteria


    The Chinese Coronavirus Is Not the Zombie Apocalypse

    The Chinese Coronavirus Is Not the Zombie Apocalypse | Psychology Today


    Hysteria over coronavirus sparks violent protests in Ukraine

    Hysteria over coronavirus sparks violent protests in Ukraine - ABC News

    Is this what you want to have happen in the U.S., EG?
    That is one likely outcome if panic isn't contained. As every survival expert knows, fear and panic can do more harm than actual threats to safety.

    Coronavirus might not be scarier than the flu, but what we don’t know is what frightens us

    Coronavirus scares us because it's new, unknown and has no vaccine yet

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    World Health Organizatin assistant director general, epidemiologist Bruce Aylward interview : (thanks to TR)

    Coronavirus in China: The most important lessons from China’s Covid-19 response - Vox

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    World Health Organizatin assistant director general, epidemiologist Bruce Aylward interview : (thanks to TR)

    Coronavirus in China: The most important lessons from China’s Covid-19 response - Vox
    China initially downplayed and denied the problem (just like Trump). Then they finally kicked into action and took fairly stringent steps to control spread. They could have done so much better to have responded appropriately earlier. Do we all remember the 32 yo Chinese doc who made initial reports of the disease, was pilloried by Chinese officials for doing so, and then himself died of Covid? That turn of events was key to putting the spurs to Chinese officials to first acknowledge the emerging crisis and then take action.

    Denis

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    Quote Originally Posted by dgfoster View Post
    China initially downplayed and denied the problem (just like Trump). Then they finally kicked into action and took fairly stringent steps to control spread. They could have done so much better to have responded appropriately earlier. Do we all remember the 32 yo Chinese doc who made initial reports of the disease, was pilloried by Chinese officials for doing so, and then himself died of Covid? That turn of events was key to putting the spurs to Chinese officials to first acknowledge the emerging crisis and then take action.

    Denis
    First of all, are you SURE that guy died of the virus rather than by a continuation of being pilloried? It would be a convenient cover. They have a long history of killing those who offend the party leadership.

    It's pretty certain the virus was in circulation here well before any alarming reports were received. What's also certain is that the same people who have been part of the NeverTrump resistance are using this to smear his reputation while trying to tank the economy to avoid the high probability of his being reelected against either an aging Bolshevik or an addled candidate who isn't sure what state he's in or even which office he's running for.

    Even on many of the networks that don't like Trump the guest doctors keep warning about exaggerating the threat while reminding that many patients present extremely mild symptoms. They also remind us that vulnerable people need to take extra precautions just as they do every cold and flu season.

    Many of the measures being taken are more show than protective. They had video of "T" workers (MBTA) "disinfecting" handrails and other fixtures in subway stations. Watching the half-assed technique it was obvious that it would not be very effective as they didn't even get all the surfaces.

    And tell me; what is to prevent the rail from being contaminated 5 minutes after they finish and then being touched by hundreds before the next cleaning? The virus is already here and widely spread throughout the country so it's a case of closing the barn door after the horse is gone.

    The good news? Diseases that are very dangerous are harder to catch and diseases that spread easily tend to be less dangerous. Epidemiologists have known that for a long time and it's part of the reason diseases like Ebola won't wipe us all out. Wash your hands, keep your immune system strong by avoiding things that weaken it, encourage the sick to stay home or at least wear a mask, and take normal precautions with family members with health conditions that make them vulnerable. And most important of all, don't let the fear-mongers in the media whip you into a panic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    First of all, are you SURE that guy died of the virus rather than by a continuation of being pilloried? It would be a convenient cover. They (the Chinese) have a long history of killing those who offend the party leadership. . . ..
    Seriously, Scott? You think that's what happened?

    Sure they just don't just make up BS and demand blind loyalty the American way?

    Trump’s Efforts to Remove the Disloyal Heightens Unease Across His Administration - The New York Times

    List of Trump administration dismissals and resignations - Wikipedia

    But, back on topic - climate change will be an issue long after we've corralled COVID-16:

    Donald Trump'''s Surprising, Misleading Climate Change Boast | Time

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