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  1. #21
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    The disadvantage of natural gas for vehicles is the high cost of the supporting infrastructure and the greater fill station density driven by the poor range the vehicles have. CNG technology has been available for a very long time, yet it has not become very popular because of the reasons above. People are not stupid, unlike most politicians. People will jump all over a good technology and avoid those things that do not work. Technical progress and scientific technology cannot be legislated much to the amazement of our leaders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    The disadvantage of natural gas for vehicles is the high cost of the supporting infrastructure and the greater fill station density driven by the poor range the vehicles have. CNG technology has been available for a very long time, yet it has not become very popular because of the reasons above. People are not stupid, unlike most politicians. People will jump all over a good technology and avoid those things that do not work. Technical progress and scientific technology cannot be legislated much to the amazement of our leaders.
    Or....You could simply change to:
    1. LNG
    2. Propane

  3. #23
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    I remeber reading, maybe here, about a guy in India who was going to make little city cars powered with compressed air. A two cylinder engine direct drive to rear axle. tanks in the floor/frame.
    Bill D.

    Not the one I was thinking of...

    Zero Pollution Motors | the first compressed air-powered car

    Tata AirPod Compressed-Air Car To Launch In Hawaii This Year: Report

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    The disadvantage of natural gas for vehicles is the high cost of the supporting infrastructure and the greater fill station density driven by the poor range the vehicles have. CNG technology has been available for a very long time, yet it has not become very popular because of the reasons above. People are not stupid, unlike most politicians. People will jump all over a good technology and avoid those things that do not work. Technical progress and scientific technology cannot be legislated much to the amazement of our leaders.
    Really ?

    CARB standards have done nothing ?

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    obviously the bottom line will drive many things- but government meddling can also affect outcomes.

    take, for instance, the price of gas versus diesel in europe- which is government manipulated by taxes.
    this resulted in the percentage of diesel cars sold being very high.

    similarly, the argentine experiment in cng- government regulation, hand in hand with a metropolitan area of 20 million or so, which made CNG workable. And most trips there, in the metropolitan area, are well within the 200 km range of the average, mass produced, argentine cng conversions.

    The market will demand certain things, but not always for rational or globally consistent reasons.
    And cars, above many other consumer goods, are not "rational" purchases. Corvettes and Bentleys, Teslas and VW bugs are all sold for emotional reasons.

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    Diesels are known for engine longevity. I wonder how running on LNG, propane, or compressed natural gas will affect that. Gasoline engines are supposed to run longer and cleaner when converted to propane.
    Bill D

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Tank explosions are probably VERY rare, as the tanks are probably many times stronger than the vehicle. BUT, CNG tanks are designed to hold 3500 pounds of pressure.
    My tank is carbon fiber. Since they DO hold so much pressure, they have a life span of twenty years. A person CAN get a compressor and actually fill their vehicles up at home using natural gas supplied. BUT the compressor at this point is not readily available, and pretty expensive. It's also very slow since it's compressing a two pound pressure up to 3500 pounds.Considering the litigious society we seem to live in, I can see why a company WOULDN'T want to manufacture these in America.

    CNG would work for a local hauler, where their vehicles DON'T go long distances, and they have economy of scale. For a ONE truck business, I think it doesn't pencil out. I bought my engine because CNG engined vehicles are exempt from the California Air Resources Board rules. At this point I should just buy a Prevost Bus and just call myself an RV. A forty five foot diesel powered bus can pull a twenty foot trailer and just WAVE at weighmasters at the scales.
    What is the cargo capacity of the bus/RV? I see it having a large side door that could look like a pop out, this would open to a cargo bay that is forklift loadable.
    Half the bus could be cargo and the other half a small living quarters to sleep in on the road trips. Set it up like a toyhauler trailer that the cargo area can double as more living space when empty.

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    Nothing new here.......in the 60s I had an old Albion bus with the back cut out to haul my race cars and bikes.......there was no concessional rego for things like mobile homes and antques in those days ,either........Gardner 6LW power,and plenty of black smoke on hills.....top speed 30mph,on the "public transport " tyres,slicks that were regrooved periodically to give maximum milage in busses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    Diesels are known for engine longevity. I wonder how running on LNG, propane, or compressed natural gas will affect that. Gasoline engines are supposed to run longer and cleaner when converted to propane.
    Bill D
    It extends service intervals and overall engine longevity substantially.

    Before the low sulfur diesel fuel, combustion particulates were the biggest issue for engine lube system contamination. This is why the crankcase oil was black within a few hours of an oil change.

    This is also why the Navistar diesel EGR system was such a debacle. Recirculating the exhaust particulates back into the intake air charge to control NOX3 was disastrous for engine longevity. They took a very reliable engine that had an excellent history of longevity and reliability into a piece of crap that no one wanted.

    Fewer particulates from combustion= longer engine life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    What is the cargo capacity of the bus/RV? I see it having a large side door that could look like a pop out, this would open to a cargo bay that is forklift loadable.
    Half the bus could be cargo and the other half a small living quarters to sleep in on the road trips. Set it up like a toyhauler trailer that the cargo area can double as more living space when empty.
    Don't crossover the gray line in which your toy hauler becomes commerce. You will find yourself in a world of legal problems if they prove that you circumvented the rules.

    Hauling a pallet of parts would definitely cross the line if they saw it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy2 View Post
    Don't crossover the gray line in which your toy hauler becomes commerce. You will find yourself in a world of legal problems if they prove that you circumvented the rules.

    Hauling a pallet of parts would definitely cross the line if they saw it.
    Is that the voice of experience talking?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    obviously the bottom line will drive many things- but government meddling can also affect outcomes.
    You mean like building the interstate highway system ?

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    I mis spoke about the new Crowley ship,it is an LNG dual fuel,not CNG ship.I got to thinking about how to heck a high pressure tank the size a ship would need could be made!

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    ratbldr touches on the fact that there is no such thing as an engine running on LNG. The liquid phase is for storage only. A fuel at minus 260degrees F and a cylinder head at 200 degrees F are not compatible. The fuel must be vaporized to burn exactly like propane.

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    To transport the gas by sea,it is liquefied at very low temperatute......and the constant gas bleed as it boils off is used by the ship engine as fuel......natural cork is used in the tanks as insulation,the only material so far proved suitable.......methane is a "permanent" gas,it cant be liquefied by pressure,so expensive refrigeration /liquefaction plant is needed to for bulk transport.Which is what the multinationals have built in Gladstone. Throughput of the plant so large,gas is now being denied to the domestic market.......We are a true third world country where greedy politicians sell all the resources overseas.

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    {https://www.eaglelng.com/projects/jacksonville-fl} The gas plant and port storage are LNG also.
    The Crowley ship is roro-con combination.It cruises at 22 knots,while not the fastest commercial ship,still a pretty decent clip for a nearly 800'long ship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    To transport the gas by sea,it is liquefied at very low temperatute......and the constant gas bleed as it boils off is used by the ship engine as fuel......natural cork is used in the tanks as insulation,the only material so far proved suitable.......methane is a "permanent" gas,it cant be liquefied by pressure,so expensive refrigeration /liquefaction plant is needed to for bulk transport.Which is what the multinationals have built in Gladstone. Throughput of the plant so large,gas is now being denied to the domestic market.......We are a true third world country where greedy politicians sell all the resources overseas.
    "Anything-for-A-Buck Australia"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy2 View Post
    Don't crossover the gray line in which your toy hauler becomes commerce. You will find yourself in a world of legal problems if they prove that you circumvented the rules.

    Hauling a pallet of parts would definitely cross the line if they saw it.
    Brian has a long standing obsession with commercial trucking without following the rules. I guess he thinks he is special. Even when he was busted in Iowa for running interstate with no DOT number, his solution was to camouflage his rig rather than get the proper credentials.

  21. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post
    Brian has a long standing obsession with commercial trucking without following the rules. I guess he thinks he is special. Even when he was busted in Iowa for running interstate with no DOT number, his solution was to camouflage his rig rather than get the proper credentials.
    I know a guy that is a retired Texas DOT cop, his greatest joy in life was busting "RV" race haulers etc.

    I have a DOT number AND a RV semi truck. There are a lot of things I could do with my RV that are commercial but, why risk it? For a few bucks or to save a bit I risk loosing my trucks RV status, heavy fines and fees. In most cases the cost to hire a truck or pay freight is not that much more expensive than doing it.

    Regarding California and their diesel regulations, unless you do a lot of business in state hire a truck OR rent a truck for a trip or two. Maybe buy a gas engine truck? The small diesel engines have the same issues the big ones do with emission systems Many light truck buyers are going gas, between the upcharge for a diesel and, ongoing costs diesel engines have lost their luster.

    Steve

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