Comparable machines to Van Norman 16M

Divotf15 · Dec 18, 2020

Recently had a fire in my shop. A race car blew up and began a fire that extinguishers could not put out.

Mill was subjected to a lot of heat and lots of water through the machine, inside and outside. I don’t believe it will be feasible to repair. Initial attempt to measure table resulted in binding and wild swings on the dial indicator. I am guessing 10-20K to grind, scrape, and general repair. I think insurance will be shelling out for another mill.

I liked the machine, but parts are getting harder to get. That thing could really hog some metal. 1” x 1” channel cutting was child’s play.

So, what machines would be comparable to the sturdiness, accuracy, and work axis travel as well as adjustable head angle?

I may have some parts available soon. Lol

Thanks for your input.

sfriedberg · Dec 21, 2020

Couple of equally hard-to-find-parts no-longer-made options: Abene, Dufour. You'll have to research the models to figure the closest equivalent to a VN 16.

Up a category or two price-wise, appropriately equipped Deckels and clones. May or may not be comparable material hogs, but excellent builds and versatility.

thermite · Dec 21, 2020

Divotf15 said:
Recently had a fire in my shop. A race car blew up and began a fire that extinguishers could not put out.

Mill was subjected to a lot of heat and lots of water through the machine, inside and outside. I don’t believe it will be feasible to repair. Initial attempt to measure table resulted in binding and wild swings on the dial indicator. I am guessing 10-20K to grind, scrape, and general repair. I think insurance will be shelling out for another mill.

I liked the machine, but parts are getting harder to get. That thing could really hog some metal. 1” x 1” channel cutting was child’s play.

So, what machines would be comparable to the sturdiness, accuracy, and work axis travel as well as adjustable head angle?

I may have some parts available soon. Lol

Thanks for your input.

Better fire supression too, in future, I'd guess.

What he said. Essentially every affordable "manual' mill of comparable flexibility is also "orphaned" if not also a WORSE PITA to refurb and tool-up than the VN was.

CNC ate their "mass" market a long time ago.

Can you stand having to rebuild a "project" mill on top of all the OTHER losses to be made ready again?

Or is it time for CNC? Those don't HAVE to "hog". They just nibble really FAST and oftener without getting bored!

Insurance pay-out on an old VN won't likely cover much, either way.

beckerkumm · Dec 22, 2020

About as orphaned as you can get but does most everything. 50 taper.

. Rambaudi UR60. Dave

thermite · Dec 22, 2020

beckerkumm said:
About as orphaned as you can get but does most everything. 50 taper.View attachment 308266 View attachment 308267. Rambaudi UR60. Dave

Nah. Known (in Europe, at least) as a good mill, so not horribly rare. An Oerlikon Italia has to be scarcer!

Or a USMT "Quartet"?

The Oerlikon is righteous.

You don' wanna KNOW about the "Quartet"!

Very good at keeping me out of brothels .... if only off the back of chronic confusion...

Divotf15 · Dec 28, 2020

Well, I might go CNC. Replacement cost insurance is kicking in pretty good. They are kind of confused as to what to pay so far. They had an “expert” come by and look at it. He told them he was kind of at a loss too since they have to replace with like kind and quality. He went over to my friends house that I had recently milled a 24 inch x 8 inch bar for. He measured the surface and it was within .0005 over the whole cut. He told the adjusters that he would be hard pressed to find a used machine that cuts that big and accurate, a new one with those specs would be over 45K. He said he didn’t know anyone that would undertake refurbishing it either. I have a number that I will take that is less than a new machine. That is why I am trying to find something comparable. I think they need to eat a little more money if they have to buy something a little better (cnc) to get me the milling capability I had as a minimum. Keep the suggestions coming.

dalmatiangirl61 · Dec 28, 2020

I was bored and looking at machinery last night, saw this, know nothing about the brand, no affiliation with seller, looks like it might suit your needs and price is right compared to similar machines from other sellers.
6P83 STANKO HIORIZONTAL MILL W/INDEPENDENT POWER OVERARM VERTICAL HEAD - #26309 | eBay

Tyrone Shoelaces · Dec 29, 2020

dalmatiangirl61 said:
I was bored and looking at machinery last night, saw this, know nothing about the brand, no affiliation with seller, looks like it might suit your needs and price is right compared to similar machines from other sellers.
6P83 STANKO HIORIZONTAL MILL W/INDEPENDENT POWER OVERARM VERTICAL HEAD - #26309 | eBay

I've worked on those machines in the past. They did a bigger version as well. I liked them, they're not particularly sophisticated but they do the job. They have a power draw bar on the horizontal spindle that has an unusual draw bar fitting. The ones I was installing came with a 3 axis DRO, a really good vice, a dividing head with all the discs, several arbors with the usual spacers, two outer arbor supports etc.
Maybe you could enquire as to if any of those items come with the machine.

Regards Tyrone.

dalmatiangirl61 · Dec 29, 2020

Tyrone Shoelaces said:
I've worked on those machines in the past. They did a bigger version as well. I liked them, they're not particularly sophisticated but they do the job. They have a power draw bar on the horizontal spindle that has an unusual draw bar fitting. The ones I was installing came with a 3 axis DRO, a really good vice, a dividing head with all the discs, several arbors with the usual spacers, two outer arbor supports etc.
Maybe you could enquire as to if any of those items come with the machine.

Regards Tyrone.

I was just window shopping and thought it looked like a decent machine for the price, if it was in Vegas I would be all over it

, not sure how I would move it though if that weight of 7500lbs is correct. Did a little research on those last night, looks like Stanko is Russian made. Ohio is too far away, only have a 5k lift, too much snow on ground to even think about driving a lift down driveway right now, and it is seriously questionable if I could squeeze it into my shop.

alphonso · Dec 29, 2020

dalmatiangirl61 said:
I was just window shopping and thought it looked like a decent machine for the price, if it was in Vegas I would be all over it, not sure how I would move it though if that weight of 7500lbs is correct. Did a little research on those last night, looks like Stanko is Russian made. Ohio is too far away, only have a 5k lift, too much snow on ground to even think about driving a lift down driveway right now, and it is seriously questionable if I could squeeze it into my shop.

Maybe in the middle of the swimming pool? :eek:

But, yeah, you don't have any room for it.

Tyrone Shoelaces · Dec 29, 2020

dalmatiangirl61 said:
I was just window shopping and thought it looked like a decent machine for the price, if it was in Vegas I would be all over it, not sure how I would move it though if that weight of 7500lbs is correct. Did a little research on those last night, looks like Stanko is Russian made. Ohio is too far away, only have a 5k lift, too much snow on ground to even think about driving a lift down driveway right now, and it is seriously questionable if I could squeeze it into my shop.

The weight will be correct. They were quite a heavy machine. I'd say they were a good horizontal machine with reasonable vertical milling machine capacity. Depending on what type of work you do a pure vertical machine may be better. I installed a couple of the bigger machines and nobody ever really got the benefit of the power available on the horizontal spindle. They can really move metal.

Regards Tyrone.

Ohio Mike · Dec 29, 2020

I assumed when I started reading that you were shelling out for a replacement. If the insurance company is picking up the tab how about a new USA made Wells-Index mill?

reggie_obe · Dec 29, 2020

Look for a Cinci MH2. Horizontal mill with independently powered vertical head built into the overarm. Power in all three axis and rapids.

rickseeman · Dec 30, 2020

Here is a 16L for sale

Van Norman Universal Milling Machine Horizontal, Angular & Vertical Mill - SMF and Machine Tools

tnmgcarbide · Dec 30, 2020

Lagun FU3-LA or FU-2 LA -Universal Horizontal Milling Machine. very much the same idea as VN machines.

Divotf15 · May 18, 2021

OK, I think the insurance is gonna pay out now. Maybe a couple of weeks. Anyone out there interested in my old machine? It is in Weatherford Texas. If they make the final determination, I will be looking to offer it for free. The base is a 16M. I have come to believe that maybe the head and arm are possibly another model. Adjustable head has 3 locking bolts, not 4. They will haul it away in demolition if no one gets it. At any rate, if anyone is interested when they finalize it, email me at [email protected].

Divotf15 · Jul 19, 2021

Am now looking at wells index.... I like to buy American when I can.

ratbldr427 · Jul 20, 2021

One thing no one mentions when talking about Wells Index mills is that they are one of the few that uses 3 bearings in the lower spindle and a double row on top. They seem to be a lot smoother than most of the BP's and clones.

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