Carbide ring source

JP Machining · Aug 16, 2021

Good customer of mine asked me to make a some new bandsaw blade guide roller assemblies for them. This is a very large fully automated saw from Germany or somewhere over there with like 6 month+ leadtime on parts at the moment.

The main contact wheel is Carbide ring that is 80mm OD 65mm id and 9mm thick. I'm not even sure where to start to look for this, any links or contacts much appreciated.

I may just wind up using some hardened A2 or something similar to get usable, but if a source for carbide is out there may as well do it right.

DDoug · Aug 16, 2021

JP Machining said:
Good customer of mine asked me to make a some new bandsaw blade guide roller assemblies for them. This is a very large fully automated saw from Germany or somewhere over there with like 6 month+ leadtime on parts at the moment.

The main contact wheel is Carbide ring that is 80mm OD 65mm id and 9mm thick. I'm not even sure where to start to look for this, any links or contacts much appreciated.

I may just wind up using some hardened A2 or something similar to get usable, but if a source for carbide is out there may as well do it right.

These people are nearby, but have never used them personally:
Grades | Leechcarbide

CarbideBob · Aug 16, 2021

Do you need it ground to size or molded with grind stock?
Either way one piece will not be cheap unless you find someone making them in batches for this use.
I buy carbide rings for making carbide tipped Rohm type face drivers but this unground material and never in less than 25 piece batches.
Maybe someone out there with this as a finished replacement part. On that end I am once again of no help to the board so another worthless post from Bob.
Leech is very good, my go to is Innovative.
Bob

JP Machining · Aug 16, 2021

CarbideBob said:
Do you need it ground to size or molded with grind stock?
Either way one piece will not be cheap unless you find someone making them in batches for this use.
I buy carbide rings for making carbide tipped Rohm type face drivers but this unground and never in less than 25 piece batches.
Bob

That is ground size and I only really need 2 right now, but maybe could buy half a dozen.

Conrad Hoffman · Aug 16, 2021

These guys specialize in wear parts and might be able to do it:
Philadelphia Carbide Company: Precision manufacturer of tungsten carbide, ceramic, silicon carbide wear parts, machine parts & dies, ceramic and carbide grinding to .0001", the tightest tolerances in the industry, and polishing to 1 RMS

eKretz · Aug 16, 2021

Make them from steel and get them spray metallized with tungsten carbide. Try Pyramid Metallizing, we've had good luck with them. You would probably have to ship your parts there and back.

woodchuckNJ · Aug 16, 2021

wonder why the metal bandsaws don't use ceramic guides. WW bandsaws have gone to it... they don't wear, they don't spin (bearings), they remain cool and can be placed closer to the blade (as long as properly welded and ground).

should be better with coolant too.

memphisjed · Aug 17, 2021

woodchuckNJ said:
wonder why the metal bandsaws don't use ceramic guides. WW bandsaws have gone to it... they don't wear, they don't spin (bearings), they remain cool and can be placed closer to the blade (as long as properly welded and ground).

should be better with coolant too.

spinning guides allow for slop in a guide block. Carbide chiclets are the best in they do not squish and lengthen the blade in small areas. Ceramic shows promise, all the ones I have seen have to sharp an edge or slightly abrasive. Carbides last years in heavy use. Wood saws generally run without coolant and the saws are not exerting the same force on the blade. The no coolant part does lend to ceramics in an open (airy) guide block. The guide blocks on fancy metal saws are massive and cooled with coolant to avoid thermal variation from blade. Anyone running a fancy dollar saw (meba ?)is not welding the blades. Factory welded blades tend to be darn good.

woodchuckNJ · Aug 17, 2021

memphisjed said:
spinning guides allow for slop in a guide block. Carbide chiclets are the best in they do not squish and lengthen the blade in small areas. Ceramic shows promise, all the ones I have seen have to sharp an edge or slightly abrasive. Carbides last years in heavy use. Wood saws generally run without coolant and the saws are not exerting the same force on the blade. The no coolant part does lend to ceramics in an open (airy) guide block. The guide blocks on fancy metal saws are massive and cooled with coolant to avoid thermal variation from blade. Anyone running a fancy dollar saw (meba ?)is not welding the blades. Factory welded blades tend to be darn good.

I think you can replace the word carbide with ceramic above and still be correct.

ceramic don't squish.
the force on the guide will not crack the ceramic, and they are excellent at not adding heat to the blade. bearings tend to jam with swarf, so guides are kind of self cleaning, in that you don't run a bearing that allows the chips to be crushed smaller and jam...

ceramic thrust bearings make way more sense than a regular ball bearing, the ceramic doesn't spin, and remains flat against the blade offering more support.

wood working the blades are traveling at 2x-3x the speed of a metal saw. so they do good for keeping the blade cool.

but it's not been adopted.

JP Machining · Aug 17, 2021

Guys this is a high end super fast non ferrous bandsaw that cuts a 6" bar of aluminum in about 3 seconds flat. I'm pretty sure the guides have been engineered to be the best they can for the high demand sawing it does. We are not going to change large high speed rollers over to rub pads and hope for the best.

Given time to get proper carbides we may do some hardened A2 for temporary until can be replaced with carbide.

kenton · Aug 17, 2021

If you can get a hold of the material you could cut them out on a WEDM.

CarbideBob · Aug 17, 2021

WEDM is maybe not so good for a running OD surface. :eek:

ID I assume has to be press fit on a bearing which means tight tolerances here.
OD just probably needs to run true within a couple thou but needs a nice circle finish.
Premold blank or wired rough if one or twos. Thickness grind, ID grind, OD grind.
All of these actual run steps (expect for the wire) fast but the setups and size in cost real money.
At 10,000 pieces yearly buy this part is well sub 10 dollars.
At one piece be sitting down for the quote.
Bob

JP Machining · Aug 17, 2021

CarbideBob said:
WEDM is maybe not so good for a running OD surface.
ID I assume has to be press fit on a bearing which means tight tolerances here.
OD just probably needs to run true within a couple thou but needs a nice circle finish.
Premold blank or wired rough if one or twos. Thickness grind, ID grind, OD grind.
All of these actual run steps (expect for the wire) fast but the setups and size in cost real money.
At 10,000 pieces yearly buy this part is well sub 10 dollars.
At one piece be sitting down for the quote.
Bob

I got a quote from the Philly carbide. Not horrible, just price of a couple good size endmills. Will see what customer says and have a couple other feelers out yet.

winger · Aug 20, 2021

This company was making punches and dies for the plant I worked in. Not sure if they do small lots.

Dave

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