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  1. #2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Democrats will try to use the virus to push for national vote by mail.

    The lockdowns won't be in place for that long. It's disrupting the primaries, but we'll be back open by the general.
    Curious if you think that (voting by mail) would be a bad thing?

    In California much of the vote has been by mail for years. Virtually no gaming of the system.* Whole lot easier for citizens and cheaper. Only downside seems to be that the desire for instant gratification over vote results gets delayed a bit in counting late-arriving mail ballots.

    Each election cycle about 20 of us with mutual respect and a mix of party affiliations go through the candidates and propositions. We split up the research. Share results. Maybe argue a bit. Then each of us fills out our ballots a bit more informed. Voting by mail makes those informed decisions easier.

    *One way to game it might be for a family member or others to fill in the ballot for others. Stub system could track that if it became a problem. Seems to be very rare. What's not rare is people not caring, not voting.

    On the other hand, my wife spent some election weeks at her sister's place in North Carolina whle the two looked after their mother. Seems there were more voting irregularities in a system more devoted to in person voting. Hard for minorities to find a voting place. Against all rules party workers were swarming the parking lot offering to help my wife's elderly mother make the "right" ballot choices. If anything a mail system makes it equally possible for all citizens to participate, with very limited cases of undue influence due to the process itself.

  2. #2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    Curious if you think that (voting by mail) would be a bad thing?

    In California much of the vote has been by mail for years.
    Yah, well... lot more than that wrong with Kali. Look what it got you?

    That looters are already trying to figure out how to game it against the rest of us? Surely sinks the possibility for America to risk it!

    If need be, all we have to do is open more polling places, each smaller, and extend polling time-span so as to schedule folks for lower density and sane separation, each given hour ... in between periodic disinfecting spray-downs, even.

    It just isn't that hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    What about your hero considering a quarantine of NY/NJ/CT?
    It's called a cordon sanitaire, has history, can do some good. Whether it would have helped in this case I dunno, but not necessarily a bad idea. Certainly better than what he was doing previously, smirking and giggling and sitting on his thumb while the disease spread unmolested.

    Cordon sanitaire - Wikipedia

    Also, according to Scottl's report, Rhode Island is doing exactly the wrong thing, sending out the army with machine guns. You fucking idiots just have to bring force into everything. They don't need guns and they don't need soldier uniforms, doing it the way they did almost guarantees resistance.

    Does any fucking government in the US have an IQ over ten ? Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by SIP6A View Post
    Gordon country's are much more than geography. It's the people that make a country. And how those people chose to run it make all the differences. Some countrys are successful while others fail. Fate has nothing to do with it.
    Would you mind explaining that to Fat Grunt ? Since you're not doing anything else right now ?

    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    While it is pretty easy for China to prevent the spread of information within the country,
    Ha hahahahhahah

    Silly. In fact, the first rumblings I heard about this virus was eavesdropping on some girls talking on the subway. One of them had a nice set. That was on New Year's eve (the January one) 'cuz I asked the Management about it later that night. I misheard it as a new disease in Washington and wondered which one. If I'd heard wuhan I would have looked more and listened less.

    Three fastest forms of communication : telephone, telegraph and tell a woman. Newspapers are way down the list (plus they are all twisted and phony these days, and we know it.)

    it is much more difficult to stop us knowing things. Big population,lots of cell phones.
    Check the numbers some day Ego ego ego .... pride goeth before a fall, senor !

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIP6A View Post
    Gordon country's are much more than geography. It's the people that make a country. And how those people chose to run it make all the differences. Some country's are successful while others fail. Fate has nothing to do with it.
    I thought my point was obvious but obviously not.

    Countries emerge and disappear. Borders change often. Before some started establishing borders and territories, farm and house owners put up fences and tribes were common who "owned" land was never a status quo.

    The USA is one country but some states are very different than others both with regard to geography and population. Civil wars start when two different views become "unsolvable" although it's the same population and people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    The USA is one country but some states are very different than others ....
    Not like it used to be. Now you even hear people from Jhawja talking like Valley Girls. And Toronto, too ! Ick.

    I blame it on teevee

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    German luftwaffe has started to transport ICU patients from Italy and France to German army hospitals
    https://twitter.com/Team_Luftwaffe

    Some probably also call this a publicity stunt but even then this is much better than latest news of countries hoarding for supplies

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    Age distribution in Finland: "Tautitapaukset ikäryhmittäin"
    Experience

    Looks like it haven't spread to elderly much yet (only 10% of cases in people over 70)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    Age distribution in Finland: "Tautitapaukset ikäryhmittäin"
    Experience

    Looks like it haven't spread to elderly much yet (only 10% of cases in people over 70)
    Looks as if we're reasonably similar.

    2020 coronavirus pandemic in Denmark - Wikipedia

    Denmark Coronavirus: 2,555 Cases and 72 Deaths - Worldometer

    As I mentioned in an earlier post several of those (especially elderly) were already seriously ill and got a "shove" from the corona virus. Their deaths are registered as "corona deaths" so I'm not completely sure what the correct fatality number is re those that have died solely from and because of the virus.

    Long story short. Anyone not taking the virus very seriously is mad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janvanruth View Post
    why is it you make it sound like that would be a bad thing?
    enabling as many people as possible to exercise their constitutional right to vote should be on anybody's mind now shouldn't it?
    Because Kalifornia already showed the way, with illegals voting in droves.

    Because the "vote by mail" is not a robust system (as of yet) and no one wants to improve the security of it (watch who screams the loudest against any additional
    security methods, mainly the democrats)

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Because Kalifornia already showed the way, with illegals voting in droves.

    Because the "vote by mail" is not a robust system (as of yet) and no one wants to improve the security of it (watch who screams the loudest against any additional
    security methods, mainly the democrats)
    I've long said there should be an audit system in place for elections where a paper copy exists for every form of voting (electronic votes printed out and stored by election officials, scanned ballots saved) and those copies stored securely for at least one year.

    The fact that the manufacturers of electronic voting systems use proprietary (and therefore secret) "algorithms" to count votes SHOULD be a source of national outrage but as usual our "news" media makes sure that story never airs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    I've long said there should be an audit system in place for elections where a paper copy exists for every form of voting (electronic votes printed out and stored by election officials, scanned ballots saved) and those copies stored securely for at least one year.

    The fact that the manufacturers of electronic voting systems use proprietary (and therefore secret) "algorithms" to count votes SHOULD be a source of national outrage but as usual our "news" media makes sure that story never airs.
    I agree Scott, except the last bit is totally false.

    There are constant stories in the 'mainstream media' about the failures of electronic voting

    Constant

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    I've long said there should be an audit system in place for elections where a paper copy exists for every form of voting (electronic votes printed out and stored by election officials, scanned ballots saved) and those copies stored securely for at least one year.
    Probably impossible to change but it'd all be much better if it really was "one man, one vote" and every vote counted.

    It's become too common that in the USA the only choice you have is pest or cholera to most and too many vote for "the party" and not for "the person".

    I've liked most US presidents and never given a damn which party they "belonged" to.

    I don't always like the government we get here but I do like the voting system. My vote is never in vain.

    Elections in Denmark - Wikipedia

    Added:
    The usual individuals will think I'm saying that Denmark is better than the USA. What I am saying is that all countries are different. It all comes down to who are most content with their governments and have the real chance to vote for change.

    BTW our votes get counted manually and rarely takes more than a few hours We even trust those that count the votes.

    The voting percentage at our last election was 84.5% and that was the lowest in 15 years. Unlike some countries you don't have to vote. Most do though

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderjet View Post
    Out here in the K.C. area, it pretty lax. Still folks going to the grocery and the hardware stores. Wal-mart is doing a land office business.
    A lot of those people are hoarding, their state of panic has overrode their common sense. I am just going to survive out of the mom & pop country stores. I did have to go to a chain grocery store a couple days ago for OTC medicine not sold in the mom & pops. Even though the store was packed I got in and out quick. Everyone was using the self checkout to avoid the cashiers. The problem was so many people were using them, and many first timers, that area looked like the inside of an NYC subway car during rush hour before this crisis. As I have said before people out here in the Central Va country panic like no other. If anyone spread the disease in that store it is just another case where fear and panic cause more harm that the original problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Because Kalifornia already showed the way, with illegals voting in droves.

    Because the "vote by mail" is not a robust system (as of yet) and no one wants to improve the security of it (watch who screams the loudest against any additional
    security methods, mainly the democrats)
    I lived in California for longer than I want to admit. When I was younger I moved around a lot and always voted. Registering to vote there is so quick and easy there is no way they can be properly checking people's eligibility to vote. The approval gets through too fast, especially in a state with the most inept public sector employees in the USA. I can say that as I knew plenty of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    I lived in California for longer than I want to admit. When I was younger I moved around a lot and always voted. Registering to vote there is so quick and easy there is no way they can be properly checking people's eligibility to vote. The approval gets through too fast, especially in a state with the most inept public sector employees in the USA. I can say that as I knew plenty of them.
    Riiiight, so you self affirming proof is that since it was easy to register, then there must be something wrong with the system

    Unless it was easy to buy a gun, then there is something right with the system, right?

    It takes milliseconds the last 30 years to confirm an address and SSN, which is all they need to know, you are 18, citizen, live here. now they scan you drivers license. Biggest issue is if you move and don't tell the DMV

    it is not supposed to be difficult

    The scant evidence of voting fraud is pretty equally balanced, plenty of right wingers voting twice to go along with the occasional immigrant

    If the gov't can make it hard for people you disagree with to vote, the next gov't can easily make it difficult for people you agree with to vote.

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    If anyone is wondering just how bad this virus is...here's a quote from a neurologist that i'm following a few miles south of me in Malaga.


    "In our hospital 7 have fallen due to a late test on a patient, now we have the hospital in quarantine, all isolated and on top of it they take away our personnel.
    So we are ... Now we double shifts, casualties (A+E) are not covered, there are no personnel, sooner or later I will fall, it is like this".


    She also writes (ref Coronavirus aiming at specific DNA):-
    "Yesterday a 28-year-old doctor died. You always said that the young people who died was due to some basic pathology. I still believe it is because of a genetic Russian roulette".



    Lastly I just read that the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem is closed due to the Coronavirus.
    The last time it was closed was in 1349 during the Black Plague...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    I agree Scott, except the last bit is totally false.

    There are constant stories in the 'mainstream media' about the failures of electronic voting

    Constant
    Agree that.

    Probably "countervailing errors" or countervailing GAMES is the only driver for reasonably fair outcomes. All sides TRY to stack the deck, one way or many.

    As an Independent? I place my trust in only those Political Parties with one or fewer members. Works a treat at not getting surprised.

    Doubt I'm the "lone ranger" on that, either. MOST of us have to hold our nose and vote-in the least-efficient looters, thieves, and wastrels just to be able to eat reg'lar-like at our own table.

    Problem isn't that the resulting shift-change of hoors can't manage a piss-up in a brewery, but that we FORGET we elected them for that very reason..

    And THEN expect them to handle a crisis OTHER THAN whom gets to steal or waste the most of our money?

    Whose fault is THAT?

    We got what we deserved and shall have to sort it all ourselves.

    Thankfully, that last part actually works better anyway, when our backs are to the wall. Read: "same shit, different day."


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Probably impossible to change but it'd all be much better if it really was "one man, one vote" and every vote counted.
    I disagree with this and think the "one man, one vote" Supreme Court decision was something of a travesty. If that decision was correct, why didn't they dismantle the Senate ?

    Because it serves a purpose, that's why. The people who designed the Constitution recognized that democracy has certain weaknesses, and they tried hard to alleviate those. Bicameral legislatures serve a purpose, which that stupid Supreme Court flushed down the toilet.

    Another dumb decision by the Supes, right up there with Dred Scott and Plessey vs Ferguson. Sometimes you wonder how such intelligent people can be so fucked up.

    Oh yeah, Citizens United. Money equals people, sure. In a dystopia ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Because Kalifornia already showed the way, with illegals voting in droves.

    Because the "vote by mail" is not a robust system (as of yet) and no one wants to improve the security of it (watch who screams the loudest against any additional
    security methods, mainly the democrats)
    no democrat is against additional security methods.
    as long as they are as free as the air you breathe.
    as soon as one has to pay to be able to vote the system is rigged.
    not to mention that some "security methods" will make it harder for democrats to vote.
    the republicans will do anything to keep the people that tend to vote democrat from voting,and you know it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    I disagree with this and think the "one man, one vote" Supreme Court decision was something of a travesty.
    Who are you disagreeing with or disagreeing about?

    Here I can vote for a person or a political party. I don't get to vote for who will be prime minister. That's up to the 179 members of our parliament. I guess they know each other better than the rest of us. It isn't always the leader of the party getting the most votes that ends up as prime minister.

    Our present (female) prime minister has to work and agree with several parties to remain in power. A prime minister that loses a political majority has to step down and this usually means a new election.

    List of prime ministers of Denmark - Wikipedia


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