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  1. #2101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    ...The virus isn't "tearing through" Europe. Italy, Spain and the UK are having huge problems but most countries are managing reasonably well all thing considered. Unlike US states most countries in Europe have closed their borders and in my own country most are behaving sensibly and avoiding as much contact with others as possible.
    Nearly 30,000 dead and 400K confirmed cases in 2 months. 50% of cases worldwide and 2/3 of the total deaths. Sort that worldometer page by deaths per capita- see what countries are at the top.

    It's the very definition of tearing through a population. This rate will continue for some time. Some places will get much worse, some places will get better in the coming weeks.

    When we finally do manage to tamp down the infections curve, that doesn't mean the problem is solved. The threat of flare-ups remains, this virus is very effective at flying below the radar. We thought we had it under control in Washington- we tested, we isolated cases, the infections curve had flattened. We were just starting to breathe a sigh of relief. But we were wrong, and it flared right back up, stronger than it was before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Nearly 30,000 dead and 400K confirmed cases in 2 months. 50% of cases worldwide and 2/3 of the total deaths. Sort that worldometer page by deaths per capita- see what countries are at the top.
    Yeah, it's scary out there. So why do you accept facts sometimes, and resort to fantasy other times? What sort of internal switch do you throw to go from reality to make-believe?

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    QT: [Yeah, it's scary out there.]
    USA Positive 164,785, Deaths 3173, Recovered 5.945
    So positive confirmed cases to deaths about 2% deaths
    Recovered compared to Deaths about 47% deaths
    Oh, there I see where you got that number
    Europe seems worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Nearly 30,000 dead and 400K confirmed cases in 2 months. 50% of cases worldwide and 2/3 of the total deaths. Sort that worldometer page by deaths per capita- see what countries are at the top.

    It's the very definition of tearing through a population. This rate will continue for some time. Some places will get much worse, some places will get better in the coming weeks.

    When we finally do manage to tamp down the infections curve, that doesn't mean the problem is solved. The threat of flare-ups remains, this virus is very effective at flying below the radar. We thought we had it under control in Washington- we tested, we isolated cases, the infections curve had flattened. We were just starting to breathe a sigh of relief. But we were wrong, and it flared right back up, stronger than it was before.
    My "objection" was that you wrote as if Europe was a single country. Much the same as if I wrote "America" meaning both the north and south of the continent. How is the entire continent of America doing? I've heard very little about the countries in South America.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    No Gordon, I am watching this crisis tear through Europe, killing your doctors and nurses, forcing them to decide who lives and who dies, and bodies stacking up like cord wood in Ice Rinks.

    I see 3,100 dead in the US, and over 26,000 dead in Europe (as of yesterday).

    I am thankful that Trump's quick response gave the US more time to prepare,
    In now way shape or form did trumpski respond quickly

    he has fought the professionals along the way, and has been a one man wrecking crew, encouraging people to ignore the advise of professionals

    'leadership' means being ahead of the game, thinking things through and listening to your advisors

    not lying every day about just about everything

    there was no early screening

    complete fail on people coming into the country

    complete fail

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  7. #2106
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    Utility bills and drivers licence? what the hell those have to do with voting?
    utility bill proves where you live

    drivers license is the de facto id in the states


    so 'who you are' [license]
    and 'where you live' [utility bill]


    voter registration is mostly a local affair, towns here, perhaps county elsewhere

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    Utility bills and drivers licence? what the hell those have to do with voting?
    Utility bills = Proof of residence (within a state)

    Proof of residence = driver's license

    Automatic Voter registration at Department of Motor Vehicles = right to vote

    No proof of citizenship required, and done in a manner that many illegals may THINK they have a legal right to vote.

    Who are you gonna vote for, the people who want to send you home, or the people who let you bypass the immigration process?

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    The WHO are a joke and have misinformed the public.
    - The WHO said the coronavirus couldn't be transmitted from person to person.
    - The WHO advised against shutting borders and cancelling flights.
    - The WHO says masks don't protect anyone or prevent the spread of the coronavirus.

    And then last night - If wearing masks by healthy people have no medical benefit, why do doctors and medical staff wear them?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails capture.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    That is a very politically incorrect post because Taiwan doesn't exist, ...
    Of course Taiwan exists. It is part of China, as decided by the United States of America, September 2, 1945 on the decks of the battleship Missouri. Signed seaked and delivered.

    Silly boy ! Where were you in history class ?

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    OT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    That is a very politically incorrect post because Taiwan doesn't exist, ...

    Perhaps on the round world map it might but on the flat world map it may be on the under side or on the edge.

    GPS Visualizer: Freehand Drawing Utility: Draw on a map and save GPX data

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Yeah, it's scary out there. So why do you accept facts sometimes, and resort to fantasy other times? What sort of internal switch do you throw to go from reality to make-believe?
    Milland, I an sorry but I have nothing for you. What you call "fantasy" is simply that I do not share your hatred of the President.

    Nothing I can do about that.

    I was very critical of the CDC director over the testing fiasco. I have never said we did everything right. The early screening of returnees should have been handled better. But we did quarantine a lot of people- we opened up 5 military bases to quarantine people that had nowhere to go. It was a LOT of people to manage all at once, and other countries had the same problems that we did. If they even tried at all...

    Wrt his comments- I accept the POTUS wants to avoid panic, but his comments have to be taken in the context of the time they were made. A statement at the end of February is completely out of context today. No one has a crystal ball.

    Trump is a carnival barker. Who cares- tell me something I don't already know.

    I recognize something you absolutely refuse to admit- the travel restrictions bought us critical time to prepare. We would not be looking at 100 empty field hospitals today, stocked up, manned up, and ready for patients. We would be Italy, people dying in the corridors. It would be OUR doctors and nurses deciding who gets treatment and who does not. And your criticism would be deserved.

    That is not a position I want our health care people to be forced into. This virus came here the same time it came to Europe.

    Do you know how many people were hospitalized in New York as of last Sunday? It was 7280. Total. 1750 of those were in ICU. There are almost 100,000 beds available in New York, plus about 7,000 ICU beds. They have 3 weeks of PPE stockpiled (at the worst case scenario numbers) Hospitalizations have gone from doubling in 2 days, to doubling in 6 days. It's not over by a long shot, but we are not in a reactive posture, with people dying the corridors waiting for care.

    Talk is cheap. I care MUCH more about actions than words.

    This should not be political, but to you everything is political...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Utility bills = Proof of residence (within a state)

    Proof of residence = driver's license

    Automatic Voter registration at Department of Motor Vehicles = right to vote

    No proof of citizenship required, and done in a manner that many illegals may THINK they have a legal right to vote.

    Who are you gonna voter for, the people who want to send you home, or the people who let you bypass the immigration process?
    more bs


    again, proof?

    none

    Oh, wait, Alex Jones said so, my bad

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    Everything is political? Perhaps that's true, when the land is run by a sociopath who's interested in adulation over leadership.

    You got one thing right. I despise Trump. Actually, despise is too soft, too light, too benign a word. I detest him because at his heart (that dark void) he's a malignant narcissist who cares about nothing but himself. And from that nothingness comes what we have now - an incompetent response, and still coupled to praise and worship for Dear Leader.

    My view of djt is based on the harm he does. Through his brown-shirt followers, though his similarly corrupt appointees, and through turning his personal failures (bankruptcies, divorces and cheating, trading with the enemy, etc.) into things to celebrate, at least by his acolytes.

    You'll never find such worship among Democrats, not even for Bernie. People with the vaguest grasp of reality will acknowledge their leaders flaws and avoid taking everything they say as gospel.

    But not the Trumpers. You call him a carnival barker? Just a fig leaf statement, you still hang on his every word...

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    "China" didn't "lie" about anything.
    You go too far, sir. You make some ok points, but then you say something like this. Every one of your posts is "China did great, we were out ahead of the curve, whatever problems there were were minor, and the world owes China a debt of gratitude" and then '"China" didn't "lie" about anything.' Bullshit. China has been lying to the world and its people since Mao came to power, and killing people (you DO acknowledge the 10 to 30 million people, Chinese people, that were murdered by the Chinese government and the Chinese Communist Party during the Cultural Revolution, don't you? Or was this, too "a minor local matter"?). You aren't even consistent. In one post, you point out that on one matter the local authorities would NEVER act without notifying their higher-ups, yet on the matter of delaying notification and not locking down early enough to stop the worldwide disaster, "Oh, this was only a local matter". And you do realize that the information you get from the state-controlled media may not be the most impartial? To be blunt, the Chinese government lies daily, and lies skillfully, but it still lies. And there are some who are gullible enough to believe all those lies.

    You do realize that your "China was actually ahead of the curve, we did nothing wrong, and any blips were local and certainly not the fault of the government, and this whole episode is proof that we're beautiful and wonderful" is exactly, mathematically precisely, equivalent to the Trump lies that "We were actually ahead of the curve...:" and so on. It's exactly the same set of lies!

    I again cite Wizardology: As the prophet Boz has written: "It's entirely possible in an argument that both sides are wrong." And "We don't trust people who aren't worthy of trust - and this may be everybody".

    Yes, the Chinese doctors and nurses who treated patients are as heroic as the docs and nurses here and elsewhere (maybe not as heroic as in Spain and in Italy though, that's rough duty). There are truly wonderful and heroic Chinese people who helped reduce the infection rate in Hubei province and elsewhere. And there's even some government officials who did a great (thoughtful, effective, energetic) job in this matter. But I repeat, when you make the claim '"China" didn't "lie" about anything' you're not convincing anyone. If we wanted that type of progaganda we could read the English language version of the People's Daily. I tried. I choked on the saccharine just looking at the headlines. How do you stomach such mendacious tripe (I guess by accepting it naively, with no skepticism.

    You remind me of the joke Ronald Reagan told. An American and a Russian are arguing about whose country was better. The American said "In my country, I could hold a press conference on the steps of the Capital, and I could shout "I don't like the way Ronald Reagan is running our country!". The Russian said "So could I!" The American expressed disbelief. The Russian said "In my country, I could have a press conference at the Kremlin, and I could shout "I don't like the way Ronald Reagan is running his country!". If you say you have the same freedom to publicly and prominently disagree with the policy expressed in the People's Daily, I don't believe you. The doctor who tried to warn the world was censured and forced to sign on to "not repeating his offense".

    Strangely enough, I get the impression that what Donald Trump would like, more than a cure for Corona virus, would be absolute control of the press, like the CCP has on media in China.

    '"China" didn't "lie" about anything'" is about as credible as "This WuFlu thing is all a hoax". Or "We are facing a more difficult issue than any president has ever faced, and we're doing beautifully". When you say '"China" didn't "lie" about anything'" you convince no one of anything but the fact that your judgement is warped and your word is unreliable.

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  20. #2115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    My "objection" was that you wrote as if Europe was a single country. Much the same as if I wrote "America" meaning both the north and south of the continent. How is the entire continent of America doing? I've heard very little about the countries in South America.
    Comparisons of Eurpoe and the US are made all the time. I use it because it is roughly analogous. Similar population densities, degrees of urbanization, both have free movement of people and goods between "states", large public transportation infrastructures- trains, subways, air travel, etc. These are the factors at play when it comes to the spread of the virus.

    It would make no sense to compare the US with say, Switzerland in raw numbers. Per capita death rates? Fine- I can do that too.

    South and Central America are lagging, but it's coming. Their saving grace has been they don't have the kind of commercial connections that the US and Europe have to China. They were slower to seed, and their populations are less mobile. But it's still coming. There was one chance to stop this, and it was the first 2 weeks in January. There is no place on earth- well, maybe Antarctica will be spared.

    South of the border, Mexico City will be the hardest hit, and there will be countless deaths in Central and South America that will never get counted, due to the lack of basic infrastructure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bosleyjr View Post
    You do realize that your "China was actually ahead of the curve, we did nothing wrong, and any blips were local and certainly not the fault of the government, and this whole episode is proof that we're beautiful and wonderful" is exactly, mathematically precisely, equivalent to the Trump lies that "We were actually ahead of the curve...:" and so on. It's exactly the same set of lies!
    I knew there was a reason I liked you. It is precisely the "normalization" of massive lies that underscores my hatred of djt, and why I consider him so bad for the country.

    As for EG, I find him interesting, but (patting myself on the back) think that I have a broad enough understanding of rhetoric that I can separate wheat from chaff. Looking at how many accept various dogmas without question, I truly wish more had that facility.

    Except for Boz-Decrees. Those are never questioned...

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    The WHO are a joke and have misinformed the public.
    - The WHO said the coronavirus couldn't be transmitted from person to person.
    - The WHO advised against shutting borders and cancelling flights.
    - The WHO says masks don't protect anyone or prevent the spread of the coronavirus.

    And then last night - If wearing masks by healthy people have no medical benefit, why do doctors and medical staff wear them?
    Because they are face to face with sick people all day long?

    Equating healthy citizens with medical pros treating patients is a non-starter.

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    Do the patriotic duty and step into the incinerator for your country. No, that guy behind you holding the gun is for your protection. GO!

    Good almost 50% of stocks are up today to almost 50% low...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Except for Boz-Decrees. Those are never questioned...
    Wow, I never realized how much power I wield. With great power comes great responsibility - I'll have to actually THINK about those decrees before I make 'em.

    More to the point is your note about normalization of lying to propagate power. Of COURSE China and Russia have done this for years in their own state-controlled media. And its a provable fact that before social media, they tried to recruit reporters and public figures as fellow travelers. Now, we've made it easy for them: the addicted wait to find out what they should think from twitter. And so Xi and Putin have small armies of propagandists who are trained to post stuff that's destabilizing. And the withdrawal crazed addicts mainline this crap. Forget "Running Dog Capitalists", which were a fiction in the mind of Chinese propagandists. Now we have "Running Dog Twitterists". And they're real!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bosleyjr View Post

    More to the point is your note about normalization of lying to propagate power. Of COURSE China and Russia have done this for years in their own state-controlled media. And its a provable fact that before social media, they tried to recruit reporters and public figures as fellow travelers. Now, we've made it easy for them: the addicted wait to find out what they should think from twitter. And so Xi and Putin have small armies of propagandists who are trained to post stuff that's destabilizing. And the withdrawal crazed addicts mainline this crap. Forget "Running Dog Capitalists", which were a fiction in the mind of Chinese propagandists. Now we have "Running Dog Twitterists". And they're real!
    From your fingers to the heathen's eyes. While wearing gloves and eye shields, of course.


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