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  1. #2121
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Do the patriotic duty and step into the incinerator for your country. No, that guy behind you holding the gun is for your protection. GO.

    Hey buck, after beating you up a bit on Covid19 science, I'm glad to be able to give a thumbs up to your post here. I like it. +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    ...As for EG, I find him interesting, but (patting myself on the back) think that I have a broad enough understanding of rhetoric that I can separate wheat from chaff. Looking at how many accept various dogmas without question, I truly wish more had that facility.
    So you have no problem with EG's disinformation campaign, because you can separate the rhetoric from the facts?

    But everything Trump says you take completely literally- even when it's media narrative and Trump didn't even say it (ex. the virus is a hoax)...

    It's funny that you think you separate dogma from reality- but you don't even realize how much you have been gaslighted by the likes of CNN. For years, the indictments were coming. Trump, his kids, etc. Every week, same story.

    Years of being lied to. You're like a battered spouse- "Why don't you leave him?" "Because I love him"...

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    First Hand Account:

    "Patient" traveled during initial pandemic in US from WI to AZ to golf.
    Returned and started getting sick 2 days later
    Doctor said since he had no fever...flu.
    He then brought family and kids "up north" to the cabin for a weekend to visit other family. He is getting sicker still..
    Finally gets fever.
    Go to ER because they are being told different directives
    Chest Xray/MRI shows lungs full
    He has COVID. Duh

    *However they will not lab test him and send him home to quarantine because he is young enough. Thereby keeping case numbers down, and covering up all the mistakes along the way.

    Good Luck. It will get worse in rural communities in next couple weeks.

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    Danaher Wins FDA Approval for Fast Covid-19 Test
    Price $138
    RPS $25.05 T
    Tot reve $18 billion.
    Who Knows where they will go with this.
    Think there are about 12 (or more) outfits making these test kits.

  6. #2125
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    Umm, Boz, first off you are kinda delusional, a short trip over to visit would do you a world of good. And second, it would be better if you did not put words in my mouth.

    The rest of your remarks are kind of fantasy so .... whatever. But it would help if you did more analytical reading and less ... shall we say, imaginary interpretation ?

    Let's talk about religion now, it's safer ...

  7. #2126
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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    So you have no problem with EG's disinformation campaign, because you can separate the rhetoric from the facts?

    But everything Trump says you take completely literally- even when it's media narrative and Trump didn't even say it (ex. the virus is a hoax)...

    It's funny that you think you separate dogma from reality- but you don't even realize how much you have been gaslighted by the likes of CNN. For years, the indictments were coming. Trump, his kids, etc. Every week, same story.

    Years of being lied to. You're like a battered spouse- "Why don't you leave him?" "Because I love him"...
    To put it bluntly - yes, I can separate information from BS. Reality from fantasy.

    I can't say the same for Trumpers.

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  9. #2127
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    The WHO are a joke and have misinformed the public.
    No, they really aren't. And they haven't. They're people who are trained in medicine and work hard to protect people from deadly disease. Not infallible people, but very expert people that are doing a good job in a very bleak situation.

    And frankly, I think that those (media, individuals, etc.) who continually try to tear down those with expertise are causing tremendous damage to society. More than this virus will cause.

    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    - The WHO said the coronavirus couldn't be transmitted from person to person.
    That's not correct. As early as January they acknowledged human-to-human transmission pretty much in line with other corona viruses and noted (only a few people had died in Wuhan by then) that there were not enough data to evaluate the full extent of such transmission. This may seem not strong enough to you, but it's in the cautious, reticient language used in medicine.
    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    - The WHO advised against shutting borders and cancelling flights.
    This is true, and it should be true. From the post here:
    "In general, evidence shows that restricting the movement of people and goods during public health emergencies is ineffective in most situations and may divert resources from other interventions. Furthermore, restrictions may interrupt needed aid and technical support, may disrupt businesses, and may have negative social and economic effects on the affected countries. However, in certain circumstances, measures that restrict the movement of people may prove temporarily useful, such as in settings with few international connections and limited response capacities."
    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    - The WHO says masks don't protect anyone or prevent the spread of the coronavirus.
    This is not true. The WHO has recommended face shields and masks for those who are doing direct patient care, especially where patient status (inability to breath) precludes the patient wearing a mask. They've recommended masks for patients who can wear them. When there was an acute mask shortage, the recommended against people buying masks. This may have been to preserve the mask supply. They may change the recommendation based upon some recent data. I read a short scientific blog about the range of droplets from coughing, through different masks and through a "home-made" mask. The author was trying to advocate for everyone wearing a mask. I found the argument technically weak (analyzing aerosols is 2nd year stuff in chemical engineering so I felt qualified to pass judgement). I still think that its still the case that an EMT, Nurse, or Doc needs that mask more than I do. So if I go out, I guess I'll tie a bandana around my face. In fact, I think that this is the change the WHO will recommend. But let me be clear: changing recommendations in the face of more, newer, or better data or analysis is what we all should WANT the WHO to do. In case I didn't capture the WHO recommendations acurately, their current recommendations are here.

    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    And then last night - If wearing masks by healthy people have no medical benefit, why do doctors and medical staff wear them?
    Again, most transmission is by droplets (fomites) that land on surfaces, are picked up by touch, and transfered to the mouth or nose or eyes by touch. Or, by close personal contact (direct transfer). Like hugging someone at a funeral. But in close proximity to patients who are coughing, the fomites can fly directly into the eyes, nose or mouth. So, for the intimate distances that often occur when med pros are helping a patient, a face shield and mask are appropriate. For the rest of us, walking around? Not so much. I just did our grocery shopping and was perfectly comfortable not wearing anything on my face, but keeping a 6 foot distance.

    The reason I may wear a mask is that for all my life I've had post nasal drip and so I may cough in the morning. This is not communicable, and its certainly not covid, but it does freak the hell out of people. So, to avoid that I might wear a mask just to keep folks from wigging out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    utility bill proves where you live

    drivers license is the de facto id in the states


    so 'who you are' [license]
    and 'where you live' [utility bill]


    voter registration is mostly a local affair, towns here, perhaps county elsewhere
    Ah, forgot again that utility bill is semiofficial ID in US.
    Read something about 2020 census in US being in trouble with this Covid-19?
    I suppose there is not anyone walking door to door, counting people and branding everyone in forehead so what is the problem with census and coronavirus?

    I'll also save the energy from Gordon and mention that in Denmark they haven't done census for last 50 years as everyone born, dead and immigrated is already counted otherwise.

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    RE: It seems healthy people do better surviving the virus so good healthy food/diet are/is a small plus but important.

    In the big shop when something big went a mess..The buss/plant manager/super was asked "what did you do to avoid this next time"..You better have had an answer..DID SOMETHING

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Danaher Wins FDA Approval for Fast Covid-19 Test
    Abbott just got one too. 5 minute test, 15 machines going to each State right now. 50,000 tests per day starting next week.

    Abbott to ship portable, 5-minute coronavirus tests nationwide | FierceBiotech

    We are over 1 million tested in the US as of yesterday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Utility bills = Proof of residence (within a state)

    Proof of residence = driver's license

    Automatic Voter registration at Department of Motor Vehicles = right to vote

    No proof of citizenship required, and done in a manner that many illegals may THINK they have a legal right to vote.

    Who are you gonna vote for, the people who want to send you home, or the people who let you bypass the immigration process?
    Ha, it'd almost be easier if everyone had to have a passport. Wouldn't that make it clear?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    To put it bluntly - yes, I can separate information from BS. Reality from fantasy.

    I can't say the same for Trumpers.
    The media feeds on you.

    Russia Collusion
    Michael Avenatti
    Ukraine extortion
    etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Russia Collusion
    Michael Avenatti
    Ukraine extortion
    etc...
    Wow, you're an outlier. You actually recognized things that happened.

    I'm so proud...

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    Russia Collusion
    Michael Avenatti
    Ukraine extortion
    etc...Fire that SOB or else......

    Janie said many are rushing to buy a gun..That is dumb it think.
    Likely people who know little about guns..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwmachine View Post
    Ha, it'd almost be easier if everyone had to have a passport. Wouldn't that make it clear?
    People can live their entire lives without leaving the country, we don't view carrying your passport as a normal thing.

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    I sent my iodine ideas to Rush Limbaugh and to Fox News..I know it is old hat and everybody should know it but nobody is talking about it. Seems veterinary science is more attune than people science on that subject.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    People can live their entire lives without leaving the country, we don't view carrying your passport as a normal thing.
    And what would you use to prove your identity when you get the passport? Don't tell me that its gas bill and drivers licence?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    This is false, but we all know there is no convincing you. I'm sure EG appreciates your support.

    The virus spread around the world via International Air Routes. It arrived everywhere pretty much the same time, give or take a few days.

    50% of the cases worldwide, and 2/3 of the dead are Europeans, who FAILED to act as quickly as the US.

    The media and the democrats share some responsibility, the only thing on their (and your) minds when this began was IMPEACH TRUMP!!!

    In February, after Trump was acquitted, it was "John Bolton must testify", interspersed with democrat primaries and Trump is a racist for placing travel restrictions on China. You know what they weren't saying? "Dangerous new Chinese SARS virus on the loose".

    Thanks for the warning...not.

    Trump is the one that brought this to the attention of everyone. The CDC had been watching it since January 3. Trump was briefed for the first time on January 18, even though China was still claiming no human transmission, and no new cases in Wuhan.

    Milland, your blame game falls apart under the timeline, not that it makes one bit of difference to you- hell, you still believe the phony Russia-Trump conspiracy, long after it's been completely disproved.

    So who could possibly talk sense to you anyway? You're willfully ignorant of the facts and unwilling to educate yourself.

    You want to cite Trump statements at the beginning, but you place them in the context of the present. It's an evolving crisis, and the POTUS is adjusting his statements to the current situation. As anyone would do.
    why is it that so many outside the US can see what you cannot see?
    people that have no dog in he fight, looking in from the outside, wondering how someone on the inside cannot see what trump really is.
    cognitive dissonance might be the reason....

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    And what would you use to prove your identity when you get the passport? Don't tell me that its gas bill and drivers licence?
    no its a whole thing birth certificate etc
    new drivers license rules basically make it a passport [search real id]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwmachine View Post
    Ha, it'd almost be easier if everyone had to have a passport. Wouldn't that make it clear?
    Yah think? I have "two and half", what with HKG "permanent ID".

    Not meant to VOTE in HKG on a "right to LAND", but could do if I but shed any other residence, globally - all it takes to upgrade me to "right of ABODE"- and add a HKG SAR passport as well. OK to then buy an overseas residence again, later.

    Even Pee Are Sea has had out a welcome-mat for many years. Long story, but I am NOT up for the associated price-tag. The equivalent of a sex-change operation on the brain & persona. Easier for See-moss/Goldbrick. (S)he was a Kalifornickyah SSR Trotsky-ite to begin with, already spring-loaded somewhat to the left of Mao Zedong.

    But we - the "astronaut" globetrotters of substantial means - are not the problem. More likely to vote nowhere at all than in more than one place.

    Too DAMNED aware of, and sensitive to, just how vulnerable we would be if we tried to play games. Too much VERY hard-earned "treasure" at stake.

    The leaky parts of the system are down in the have-less-to-lose demographic. And it is a HUGE headcount.

    Prudent to recognize that as problematic.

    Practical, enforceable, just, and FAIR, "solutions" are what is harder.

    That we can't even get agreement as to what those might BE is about as clear a proof it's about perceived Political gain off NOT being fair than any other reason.

    Long time ago, but there was once movement afoot and/or actual PRACTICE - that you got to vote if you owned land and paid taxes, ELSE NOT, adn wy not> if you owned it or paid for it, why should those doing NEITHER have a say in how "your goods" were to be managed?

    Hunt Brothers f***ked that up more recently by insisting MORE taxes paid got an entitlement to MORE votes. Feudal system never really died, but wot the hey - we usually try to PRETEND it has better than that.

    Another position was that only miitary veterans - those who had put their lives on the line for a country - got to vote as to how it was to be run. Not jsut in sci-fi (Starship Trooper). In the present nd histrical world, right here, Planet Earth. Militant-controlled Bandit-kingdoms never really die, either. See nearly ALL of the Middle-East, now and forever-ago, former Soviet Bloc. Or DPRK, long-term and unchanged.

    And then... countries find themselves run by their most effective THIEVES. See StalPutlerstan. Or India - world's most populous Kleptocracy.

    End of the day, what we have NOW - USA- has never, nor will, ever, work "perfectly", either.

    Even so, warts and all, it remains ahead of whatever is in second place, if only off the back of countervailing idiocy among the body politic.

    Swings and roundabouts. We'll just have to deal with that.

    Damned foolishness never has gotten even CLOSE to going out of style before the latest iteration of idiots revive it to tilt some opposite way. Or several at once.

    You'd have to know humans?



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