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  1. #3501
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    old news.....

    Gregory Rigano, an advisor to the Stanford University School of Medicine and co-author of a new study on the effectiveness of anti-viral drug chloroquine in fighting the coronavirus,:

    Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are generic drugs traditionally prescribed in tablet form…They’re on the World Health Organization’s (WHO) list of the most essential medicines and they’re generally accepted as safe. Hydroxychloroquine has an even better safety profile than chloroquine.
    What we see in both the South Korean and Chinese guidelines (we don’t have clinical trials from there yet), they both say to use Chloroquine as a treatment.
    What I’m here to report and I’m kind of front-running him and I have to apologize, but we are in a state of emergency. (Recording malfunctions.) [An MD and a Ph.D] will be publishing in the next few days, that in a 30 patient controlled clinical study (that means a patient arm that is taking hydroxychloroquine and a patient arm that is taking nothing, a placebo)…Within a matter of six days, the patients taking hydroxychloroquine tested negative for COVID-19. Within that same time, the patients in the control (who took the placebo) tested positive.
    This is a well controlled study and what we need to proceed here is a global, well-controlled study to demonstrate its effectiveness so medical doctors are comfortable prescribing this drug worldwide.
    …we have strong reason to believe that a preventative dose of hydroxychloroquine is going to prevent the virus from attaching to the body and just get rid of it completely.
    This news is encouraging, to say the least.

    end quote

    I don't understand the resistance.

  2. #3502
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    i hope thats true but if so now we know where the smart guy got the idea....from the Chinese and Koreans.

    always ready to take credit...never responsibilty when it goes bad.


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    Quote Originally Posted by iwananew10K View Post
    i hope thats true but if so now we know where the smart guy got the idea....from the Chinese and Koreans.


    The smart guy learns from others, There is not enough time in life to make all the mistakes yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post


    I was not raised to live in fear!
    Apparently Critical Thinking and Logic weren't on the menu either...

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    Chloroquine and the Art of the Deal . . .

    There are about a hundred credible attempts to do something about the virus - chloroquine among them. Still too early to know if it will pan out.

    Meanwhile, Trump having ballyhooed this so much, and recently making a big show in India -- it turns out that about half our chloroquine supply comes from India. The Indian government has embargoed exports of chloroquine to the US (or anywhere) over a week ago.

    Those who actually needing it were finding it in short supply. Now those supplies will become desperately tight.

    If I knew it was a cure, think I'd try to lock up the supply first before becoming the advising pharmacist to the nation most every day for weeks. But, hey, whether it's nuclear dealing with N. Korea and Iran or trade relations with allies -- just watch the Twitter feed to steal a march on us.

    Wouldn't be surprised if someone has hedged chloroquine futures - planning to make a killing on this one way or the other.

  6. #3506
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwananew10K View Post
    i hope thats true but if so now we know where the smart guy got the idea....from the Chinese and Koreans.
    Before people get too excited, look at the mortality rates in both countries. They are lower than elsewhere but still significant. So chloroquine may help, but don't expect it to be a magic bullet.

  7. #3507
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    ya, i love how when i comes time to mention a real MD its "cough,cough"

    from what i can gather rigano is just another BS conman.

  8. #3508
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    old news.....

    Gregory Rigano, an advisor to the Stanford University School of Medicine and co-author of a new study on the effectiveness of anti-viral drug chloroquine in fighting the coronavirus,:

    Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are generic drugs traditionally prescribed in tablet form…They’re on the World Health Organization’s (WHO) list of the most essential medicines and they’re generally accepted as safe. Hydroxychloroquine has an even better safety profile than chloroquine.
    What we see in both the South Korean and Chinese guidelines (we don’t have clinical trials from there yet), they both say to use Chloroquine as a treatment.
    What I’m here to report and I’m kind of front-running him and I have to apologize, but we are in a state of emergency. (Recording malfunctions.) [An MD and a Ph.D] will be publishing in the next few days, that in a 30 patient controlled clinical study (that means a patient arm that is taking hydroxychloroquine and a patient arm that is taking nothing, a placebo)…Within a matter of six days, the patients taking hydroxychloroquine tested negative for COVID-19. Within that same time, the patients in the control (who took the placebo) tested positive.
    This is a well controlled study and what we need to proceed here is a global, well-controlled study to demonstrate its effectiveness so medical doctors are comfortable prescribing this drug worldwide.
    …we have strong reason to believe that a preventative dose of hydroxychloroquine is going to prevent the virus from attaching to the body and just get rid of it completely.
    This news is encouraging, to say the least.

    end quote

    I don't understand the resistance.
    The resistance is coming from multiple corners, medical and political.

    One of the best doctors I had was a research Dr. at a state university teaching hospital, specializing in ALS. His patients, on average lived twice as long as the norm, with the best quality of life, and at a substantially reduced cost of care. No magic snake oil or weird treatments, just worked very hard in staying ahead of the disease process.

    During an office visit, while he was discussing my treatment plan with me, I asked him directly why the difference in care plans compared to the other neurologists. His comments have stuck with me for the past 25 yrs.

    His comment was that most medical teaching institutions tended to entrench a mindset to follow established protocols. The problem is as he saw it as an educator and a researcher was that medical technology was a continuously moving target. What was in text books today was old information that might or might not be perfectly accurate. Combine this with the ever present possible litigation, medical science liked to hide behind protocols. He added that this worked okay for many medical situations but in situations with an incurable/terminal prognosis and especially rapid progression, this was not a very good way to improve a patients life.

    His approach and particularly in neurology was that treating symptoms directly was a poor approach in that most presenting symptoms were already an indicator of neurological damage and many times permanent. If you understand the disease and its progression, you should treat to prevent or at least slow the progression and the symptoms from developing.

    With Covid-19, it is quite apparent that the traditional protocols are inadequate for severe cases and especially with ARDS.

    I have had a great concern early on when everyone was calling for the enormous number of ventilators that were being cited. Instead of the despair over the nonexistent ventilators, much of the energy and resources should have went to the development of treatment paths to keep the patients from needing the ventilators in the first place. We could have saved lives and helped to at least minimize a logistical nightmare.

    It seems that there are a multitude of therapy paths that we should earnestly be pursuing that show promise. We do not need politicians prohibiting doctors from specific treatment options.
    The only logistical solution to end the pandemic and the economic shutdown is to have treatment plans in place to stop the immune response mechanism from kicking into overdrive. That appears to be the precipitating factor in how severe the disease path takes.

    Shelter in place is fine to reduce the rate of infection, however it does nothing to establish herd immunity. Once we start moving around again, if we have not yet been infected or lucky enough to be immune, we will again need to go back into hiding when the second and third wave of infection hits. Japan is already experiencing this and has been reported to declare a state of emergency.

    A vaccine is likely at least 18 months before we can have enough doses in the pipeline to treat the US much less the world. I see the only practical solution as therapy treatments from already existing on the shelf meds.

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    Aimed at no one but I'm getting fed up with "experts" telling me what I should and shouldn't do, especially when they often seem to have completely different viewpoints.

    One day we'll know who's right but at the moment it's more voodoo and black magic than "correct".

    All I can do at the moment is follow the advice from my government and the medical authorities here and I agree with most of what they say. The "most" in the last sentence is interesting as with a couple of things I prefer my own instinct and common sense.

    Denmark is divided up into 5 regions re corona statistics and I'm glad that my region is the one with the lowest number infected - so far. The worst is where the largest cities are but that shouldn't come as a surprise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Before people get too excited, look at the mortality rates in both countries. They are lower than elsewhere but still significant. So chloroquine may help, but don't expect it to be a magic bullet.
    there is some indication that they used those drugs only when the patient was already near the need of intubation, meaning, it was around 5 or so days late after the fever and coughing was already present

    from the info I see and read, it seems that only now (past week or two maybe) they are using it preemptively when the first signs of breathing problems appear (coughing), and that is where the latest reports and faster overall recovery reports start to come in

    BUT there is also some movement and propaganda against it, trying very hard to twist the data to show that no statistically significant result was achieved and that the vaccine is the way forward, and the author of that article that I saw is a doctor tied to some big pharma that has heavily invested into vaccine for this - and this group is using studies that tried chloroquine on patients that were in the severe/critical infection state, meaning it was too late for it to work effectively

    so basically - there seems to be a definitive push against treatment options in favor of vaccine (estimated market for cov19 vaccine seems to be around 60bil) and screw the people that suffer from this right now and would get saved by a cheap drug combo preventing them from progressing into the critical stage (where mechanical ventilation is needed with little chance of recovery)

    this sort of shows the trend of the "modern medicine" research

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    Most of the push against treatments are coming from the pro-vaccine crowd. Reports from physicians treating patients tell a different story.

    NY doctor reports 100% success treating coronavirus with drug combination | The Post Millennial - News, Politics, Culture, and Lifestyle

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Before people get too excited, look at the mortality rates in both countries. They are lower than elsewhere but still significant. So chloroquine may help, but don't expect it to be a magic bullet.
    You worry about your beloved China. We will ignore your "helpful" advice and do what we must to get our country back on track when we will resume correcting past trade distortions.

    Mortality rates in other countries are a distraction and a waste of time. The patients we need to worry about are those within our borders. The magician always wants you to watch one hand while the other works the trick.

    As I've said before, you are a disinformation agent for China trying to get us to follow a path that will destroy both our economy and our freedom. Piss Off!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    Chloroquine and the Art of the Deal . . .

    There are about a hundred credible attempts to do something about the virus - chloroquine among them. Still too early to know if it will pan out.

    Meanwhile, Trump having ballyhooed this so much, and recently making a big show in India -- it turns out that about half our chloroquine supply comes from India. The Indian government has embargoed exports of chloroquine to the US (or anywhere) over a week ago.

    Those who actually needing it were finding it in short supply. Now those supplies will become desperately tight.

    If I knew it was a cure, think I'd try to lock up the supply first before becoming the advising pharmacist to the nation most every day for weeks. But, hey, whether it's nuclear dealing with N. Korea and Iran or trade relations with allies -- just watch the Twitter feed to steal a march on us.

    Wouldn't be surprised if someone has hedged chloroquine futures - planning to make a killing on this one way or the other.
    hydroychloroquine is generic and quite easy to make.
    any decent laboratory can make it in quantities in short term order.
    it isn't produced by any bigger pharma company as there is no real money in it.
    as it happens one of the world's bigger producers is a small dutch company.
    it could ramp up production within a couple of days to a level where it alone can provide the entire world with enough of the stuff to start treating all patients world wide within days.
    that would probably mean the price would explode from nearly nothing to twice nearly nothing....

  17. #3514
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    So if we citizens permit a government that allows 30 knowing "officials" to have their warnings go unheeded. Who is at fault? I fault the citizens. We do not have a Constitution that Protects us from Government , only to Expect Government to RULE over us.

    The Bill of rights is dominated with the things the government will NOT do. There is a message there. Protect it.

    Those that would surrender any freedom for the promise of any security deserve neither, and will loose both!

    I was not raised to live in fear!
    Worth quoting! My sentiments exactly.

  18. #3515
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    The reporting is that patients presently on hydroychloroquine and associated medication are falling ill, dying and generally not sheltered from covid19
    My partner is one of those who has been on the medication for years.
    Her doctor is one of the best in the country and has been in a absolute panic that contracting the virus would kill my partner.

    We wait we hope but certainly is not present for anything at this point.
    Anyone offering such is mistaken.

    We have been both been under doctors orders to not leave the house and have no outside contact for a long while- far before it was the general recommendation.
    From where I am standing there is no practical benefit to chloroquines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    You worry about your beloved China. We will ignore your "helpful" advice and do what we must to get our country back on track when we will resume correcting past trade distortions.

    Mortality rates in other countries are a distraction and a waste of time. The patients we need to worry about are those within our borders. The magician always wants you to watch one hand while the other works the trick.

    As I've said before, you are a disinformation agent for China trying to get us to follow a path that will destroy both our economy and our freedom. Piss Off!
    EG views might be bit china-biased but he raises interesting points. Definitely not even in the top 5 useless spammer in this thread.
    China has been running hydroxychloroquine trials too and while it seems to speed up the recovery somewhat it doesn't work miracles.

    Results from a Controlled Trial of Hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    No one did anything of the kind. A presidential election is not a "best to deal with a pandemic contest". No ONE could have known. No one did know.

    really?


    this is what you are going with?

    what did you think a presidential election was? The contest to see who could poke the eyes of your political opponents for 4 years?

    The presidential election IS a "best to deal with a pandemic contest"

    Always, every time

    I knew, everyone who voted against trump knew, that it is an important job and not a joke


    you treated it like a joke and we got a game show host trying to run a country

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  22. #3518
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    Hey but the ratings are good.
    Nothing wrong with that right.
    Right...?

    b2200624-5881-4955-ac72-79e56b0c0e51.jpg

  23. #3519
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    I have no reliance on political figures for the services that are associated with medical care.
    How is it you receive medical care?

    Do I recall you saying you were over 65?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    Actually, the point was those officials were mostly fired, left, or asleep.

    Do agree, it's kind of our fault for electing bozos to office -- and then thanking them for taking out massive loans on our behalf, giving half to their buddies, and handing back what's left with a big flourish. They won't be around when those debts come due.

    But it's also a systemic problem. Between gerrymandering and hidden money buying political, regulatory, and financial favor -- we citizens are increasingly screwed.

    Should be simple enough to get rid of gerrymandering and at least (Bullock's idea) expose the hidden money trying to buy influence. Should be no surprise that lobbyists wrote maybe 2/3rd of our new $2 trillion "stimulus" bill. Oh, goodie, a $1200 check - that's maybe a quarter of a trillion. Now where's the rest of that (and, per this week's Economist another $6 trillion to follow) going to go?

    Who's afraid? I'm pissed.
    you are correct the prolem is systemic

    reality is not bianary

    there is no right or wrong

    reality is what it is

    it all comes out in the wash.....

    all modern health care has accomplished is to stockpile fuel for the fire

    just like bashing metal the metal is the ultimate authority

    you either do what the metal wants or you have failure


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