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  1. #3881
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    Quote Originally Posted by janvanruth View Post
    .. just other words for neo colonialism.
    You mean like arrogant nutcases from the Nederlands trying to tell folks in far-off countries how to run their patch?

    Wudda thot' the Indohooligans showed y'all that line of work had wobbly legs as a career....

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    Quote Originally Posted by dazz View Post
    Actually I think the opposite.
    All the responses by countries around the world are lead by politicians, who are taking advice from their medical and economic experts to varying degrees.

    Of all the countries in the world, the USA response is probably the most affected by one mans desire to be re-elected, at the expense of thousands of American lives, jobs, their health and financial well being.

    I see in another post that US Federal support for testing has been withdrawn. Reducing testing is a good way of reducing the count of people infected with covid 19. It is the worst way of dealing with a pandemic. I can't see any medical expert making that recommendation. That has to be a political decision.

    At present, the USA is tracking towards 1 million infections by Monday. If testing is reduced, that target will probably be reached in reality, but not reported in the statistics.

    It's all about the politics.

    Dazz
    NY and NJ have been overwhelmed with the cases already for a week or two and unable to test anything but serious cases.
    Guessing based on German numbers NY and NJ are totaling at the moment probably at well over 500k cases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    NY and NJ have been overwhelmed with the cases already for a week or two and unable to test anything but serious cases.
    Guessing based on German numbers NY and NJ are totaling at the moment probably at well over 500k cases.
    New York has tested over 391,000 people, more per capita than Germany.

    Workbook':' NYS-COVID19-Tracker

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    New York has tested over 391,000 people, more per capita than Germany.

    Workbook':' NYS-COVID19-Tracker
    Yes, but of all tests 40% are positive in NY and only 9% Germany. (Some parts of NYC test at 80% positive.)
    NYC testing strategy has been since 20th march to not test mild cases: COVID-19: Information for Providers - NYC Health (guidance health advisory #8)
    Imagine 4x testing capacity to NY and see how many cases you find after that.

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    For all you do nothing fans still citing “hysteria”.

    Wow- just wow:

    High Contagiousness and Rapid Spread of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2
    Early Release - High Contagiousness and Rapid Spread of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 - Volume 26, Number 7—July 2020 - Emerging Infectious Diseases journal - CDC

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  8. #3886
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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Well, that's pure bullshit, but it would do no good to explain what is really happening there, so...

    Yeah, I love how these guys think they know all about our country 'cuz they saw it on CNN.

    "It must be true - I saw it on TV!"

  9. #3887
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    What we have here is a balance scale, with suffocation and likely death on one side and life with a moderate risk of side effects on the other.
    Hmm. Wonder what the anti-vaxxers have to say about that.

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  11. #3888
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    For all you do nothing fans still citing “hysteria”.

    Wow- just wow:

    High Contagiousness and Rapid Spread of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2
    Early Release - High Contagiousness and Rapid Spread of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 - Volume 26, Number 7—July 2020 - Emerging Infectious Diseases journal - CDC
    I wonder how much variation there is in the r0 value between countries?
    Italians being social animals probably meet daily 10 times more people than us Finns for example. And 3 feet is about minimum personal space maintained here even normally..

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  13. #3889
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    For all you do nothing fans still citing “hysteria”.

    Wow- just wow:

    High Contagiousness and Rapid Spread of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2
    Early Release - High Contagiousness and Rapid Spread of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 - Volume 26, Number 7—July 2020 - Emerging Infectious Diseases journal - CDC
    "We collected extensive individual case reports across China and estimated key epidemiologic parameters, including the incubation period."

    More "projections" based on computer modeling of estimates and "data" from The People's Republic of China. How could it possibly be inaccurate?

    I've said it before - using experience in China and Italy is bullshit and leads to wildly inflated projections. Too many unknown variables that may skew results.

    In our own country we have enough distortions with "presumptive" cases vs confirmed. Add in mislabeled deaths and misinformation reported by media and numbers are higher than they should be PLUS we still don't know the denominator, which could be huge.

    Last night I spoke by phone with someone who has a close friend in a nursing home where "5 deaths" have been reported by media. She spoke with someone who had real information and it was 6 infected with coronavirus, 1 death and the death has yet to be confirmed as due to coronavirus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    For all you do nothing fans still citing “hysteria”.

    Wow- just wow:

    High Contagiousness and Rapid Spread of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2
    Early Release - High Contagiousness and Rapid Spread of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 - Volume 26, Number 7—July 2020 - Emerging Infectious Diseases journal - CDC

    Where's the chart, TR?

    Seems the bottom line is that the number of cases (and deaths) will double about every 6-7 days if nothing is done to contain it. Screw around for, say just 21 days, and a county-state-nation might end up with 8x as many cases, 8x as many needing acute care, 8x as many dead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Yeah, I love how these guys think they know all about our country 'cuz they saw it on CNN.

    "It must be true - I saw it on TV!"
    I thought up in my head it must be true

    CNN, or Scott's imagination

    Not a hard choice


    The massive ignorance in assuming something from a major news outlet is false is mind boggling

    conspiracy theories are not truth

    but then again, just because you are paranoid doesn't mean everyone isn't out to get you


    Oh, and you have about the lowest accuracy score around here, so you chiding anyone because of your assumption of where they get their news is hysterical

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    My concern is that for political and other reasons some are trying to suppress a possible life-saving treatment based on misinformation about side effects. The side effects are a real possibility but there is a great deal of experience based on millions of people having taken this drug. Most side effects are mild, the cardiac issue is rare and preventable with proper monitoring and the eye issue is not seen in short-term use but only after several years of taking the drug.

    What we have here is a balance scale, with suffocation and likely death on one side and life with a moderate risk of side effects on the other. These are not normal times and if a patient facing a high probability of death and his doctor both wish to try a therapy that has yet to undergo a double-blind test it is their choice, and theirs alone to make.

    If you were sick with this virus and nearing the stage where you might need a ventilator that is not guaranteed to save your life would YOU be willing to participate in a study where you had a 50% chance of receiving the drug and a 50% chance of receiving a placebo? Would you want to wait months for such tests to be completed?

    I'd opt for the drug and so I think would most in that situation. Where I see so much hypocrisy is that on the one hand people claim a high mortality rate which means conventional treatments aren't working well and on the other hand fight tooth and nail to discourage a treatment that doctors around the world claim success with.
    So, one minute you are all for 'death to the weak' and wanting let everyone die so you don't, what lose some on your 401k, the next there is some conspiracy to stop people from taking a medicine with no proven effects and potential dangers, I mean, it could kill them.

    Oh, wait a minute........never mind, you haven't changed sides after all

  17. #3893
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    For all you do nothing fans still citing “hysteria”.

    Wow- just wow:

    High Contagiousness and Rapid Spread of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2
    Early Release - High Contagiousness and Rapid Spread of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 - Volume 26, Number 7—July 2020 - Emerging Infectious Diseases journal - CDC
    crystal ball is a co-author.

    Now if they would just do a model of a model as Birx describes. Not counting active participation , it all goes according to plan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Yeah, I love how these guys think they know all about our country 'cuz they saw it on CNN.

    "It must be true - I saw it on TV!"
    Whaddaya recommed from 'Murican media? FOX "news" and Puffington Host?

    Instead of television news I only read British quality newspapers like Daily Post and The Sun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    Yes, but of all tests 40% are positive in NY and only 9% Germany. (Some parts of NYC test at 80% positive.)
    NYC testing strategy has been since 20th march to not test mild cases: COVID-19: Information for Providers - NYC Health (guidance health advisory #8)
    Imagine 4x testing capacity to NY and see how many cases you find after that.
    And no other European country is testing near what Germany is testing, and they all restrict testing to the most severe cases or hospitalized.

    Yes, of course the largest hot spot will have the highest percentage of positives. You already know that from hospitalizations, testing just confirms.

    Our biggest problem wrt testing is that new tests and machines have come online so fast, people don't know that there are labs that can run the tests this week that couldn't do it last week. Abbott M2000 was mentioned- 1200 machines in place in every State, a million test kits delivered, and no is using them because the providers don't realize they're available.

  21. #3896
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    And all "flattening the curve" does is make it last longer. The area under the curve is still the same - same total number of infected, just spread out over time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    New York has tested over 391,000 people, more per capita than Germany.

    Workbook':' NYS-COVID19-Tracker
    With all that "testing" you would think the infection and mortality numbers would be lower.
    Perhaps there are other aspects to consider.

  23. #3898
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    And all "flattening the curve" does is make it last longer. The area under the curve is still the same - same total number of infected, just spread out over time.
    True, of course, but if you flatten the curve of infections, you keep the number of hospitalizations under the capacity line, and, in theory anyway, save lives

  24. #3899
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    Whaddaya recommed from 'Murican media? FOX "news" and Puffington Host?

    Instead of television news I only read British quality newspapers like Daily Post and The Sun.
    CNN is American media. Their headquarters is in Atlanta, Georgia. It was founded by Ted Turner in 1979. The same Ted Turner donated One Billion dollars* to the UN in 1997. He is an ardent globalist and advocate for world government and population control. He once said “A total world population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal.

    Official Address:
    1 CNN Center
    Atlanta, GA 30348 USA
    Corporate Phone Number: 1-404-827-1700
    Fax: 404-827-1099
    Support: 1-404-827-2600

    * CNN - Ted Turner donates $1 billion to 'U.N. causes' - September 18, 1997

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    And no other European country is testing near what Germany is testing, and they all restrict testing to the most severe cases or hospitalized.
    I used Germany as an example only because they are one of the few countries with (almost)enough test coverage to make some sort of conclusions.
    Testing here in Finland is limited also but instead of 360 deaths per 1M like NY we have 8 deaths per 1M.
    1 death per day country-wide is insufficient sample.


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