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  1. #1361
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    They got submarine races back there to Ohio ?


    I guess this is something that did not make it through the news ... there is no "Chinese model." The response to the virus here was adjusted to the circumstances. In a city like Wuhan where pretty much everyone had been exposed, people went home and stayed there. Period. But in places like Gansu where there was only one case, things were much different. Many things were left open but they took other measures to track and control it. Tracking seems to be the part that you guys are totally ignoring. And preventive measures. People at doorways with clipboards and thermometers so if one case breaks through the screen, you can backchase it and stop the spread. "Break the chains", is the expression.

    Just like the 50 states, different provinces of China did different things. Basics same but execution different. Wuhan was one way. Shanghai another, Gansu totally different, Zhejiang also different. Tailor it to the circumstances. There was no "draconian lockdown of the entire country Chinese model."

    You don't have to find every single person, to stop this. You have to nip small clusters before they spread, yes. But you don't need 100% containment in one step. If your village has no cases, then set up preventive measures so when / if a case comes along, you can isolate it. But you don't need to keep hermits working in their one-man shops tied to the kitchen table leg. That's silly.

    Common sense, ya know ? Common sense informed by knowledge.

    “ But you don't need to keep hermits working in their one-man shops tied to the kitchen table leg. That's silly.’’

    ‘’Common sense, ya know ? Common sense informed by knowledge.’’

    I think this is a good thing. Several have already started this to keep working. Is it possible that these letters stating one is essential are counterfeit?

  2. #1362
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    I think, hope, that most realise by now that rather a "slight" over reaction than a "wait and see" is the best way forward.

    Denmark and Norway, compared to Sweden, have what some will call over reaction but I have gone from "it's all unnecessary panic" to "take all possible and necessary precautions".

    It seems as if the spreading here was started by Danes returning from a skiing holiday in the north of Italy where things have since become very bad.

    How do other countries convey "numbers" and statistics? I read this morning in my newspaper that 60% of those that have died here in Denmark with corona would have died anyway because they were hospitalized and very ill at the time. Nevertheless their deaths gets counted among the "corona deaths". In a morbid way that's "good news".

    My personal opinion is that it'll probably be around June before we have an idea of how things really are. The "wait and see" countries could prolong that.

    From what I read and hear the numbers in China seem to have gone own and we don't seem to be getting worse at the rate of other countries. 2020 is going to be a year long remembered.

    Added:
    Our population is just under 6 million. Official number is 34 dead but given that around 60% would have died anyway from their serious illness (corona just gave a shove) then the more correct number might be closer to 14 that have died directly from the virus. From what I read today New York has over 280 dead. I don't know how the USA evaluates to get numbers and statistics.


    Coronavirus Update (Live): 472,907 Cases and 21,315 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer

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    Health care system starting to crack in NY.
    We have now had patients die in the emergency waiting room as no bed was available in ICU.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    The stimulus bill has gotten through the senate.
    Passed with unanimous vote.
    Two trillion.
    Just the start. Look back where I said "this will cost trillions". Add in all the uncompensated losses and I expect this will easily cost the U.S. as a nation 5 to 10 Trillion in total costs.

    The U.S. 2019 GDP was 21.4 Trillion so the stimulus alone is over 10% of GDP. If I am correct in my estimates the total cost to individuals and businesses plus the cost of the stimulus may exceed 25% of GDP.

  6. #1365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Health care system starting to crack in NY.
    We have now had patients die in the emergency waiting room as no bed was available in ICU.

    Source for that?


    I think it is extremely irresponsible to make statements like that without posting a link to source material. I just took a look at the American Lung Association's COVID-19 page and they are saying there is a lot of misinformation out there.

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    “ The truth is like a lion; you don’t have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself.”
    Augustine of Hippo


    Redirect Notice

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    ...and of course, the Democrats are now lining it up so it's more profitable for the average Joe NOT to work...

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    It is my opinion that iodine is a factor in creating T cells, a bone marrow function.
    Not that excess iodine levels are needed but that a body having proper iodine level will produce t cells more efficiently. RE: Not excess levels but avoid having iodine deficiency.
    Darn, now i find coffee is not good for ones thyroid and I am a coffee haulic..
    Food source iodine is best, sea weed, yogurt, cranberries, lima beans, milk, navy beans, dried prunes, boiled egg. Cod fish, shrimp, sardines, Lists are on the internet.

    T Cells - Biology Encyclopedia - body, examples, function, human, process, system, different, organs, blood

    Variable influences of iodine on the T-cell recognition of a single thyroglobulin epitope

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Health care system starting to crack in NY.
    We have now had patients die in the emergency waiting room as no bed was available in ICU.
    COVID-19 is certainly at-play, but this is not entirely "new news".

    NYC has one of the widest disparities between facilities with good outcomes and bad in the USA.

    They can get this same sort of statistic when a bad batch of drugs hits the street.

    The "numbers" are stunning. Nearly double the population density of either Tokyo or London, for example. Tokyo is more populous, simply has a LOT more land-mass, as does London with a very similar population to NYC.

    New York metropolitan area - Wikipedia

    Neat Map Overlays Show How Big NYC Is Compared To Other Cities - Gothamist

    Or compare to entire nations:

    The NYC Metro Area Has a Bigger Population Than All These Countries - ANIMAL

    "Lost Angels" is close to the same statistics as NYC , even if less "dense".

    The high-density, high head-count, and wide disparity between health care facility effectiveness makes these two our greatest challenge.

    I'm sure we all expected that part.

    We might not have recognized by just how MUCH it is so.

  12. #1370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    NY times...

    I asked you for a LINK, not a vague response. The New York Times has numerous articles on coronavirus each day so please post a link to the exact article from which you got that "information".

    And while we are on the subject of information, it turns out that many of the leaders ordering shutdowns are using predictions based on computer modelling from THIS website:

    Coronavirus Act Now

    Here's an interesting article that points out not only how often reality has fallen short of the predictions (which are being used to shutdown the U.S. economy) but also the political connections of the site's founders.

    Inaccurate Virus Models Are Panicking Officials Into Ill-advised Lockdowns

    "Founders of the site include Democratic Rep. Jonathan Kreiss-Tomkins and three Silicon Valley tech workers and Democratic activists — Zachary Rosen, Max Henderson, and Igor Kofman — who are all also donors to various Democratic campaigns and political organizations since 2016. Henderson and Kofman donated to the Hillary Clinton campaign in 2016, while Rosen donated to the Democratic National Committee, recently resigned Democratic Rep. Katie Hill, and other Democratic candidates. Prior to building the COVID Act Now website, Kofman created an online game designed to raise $1 million for the eventual 2020 Democratic candidate and defeat President Trump. The game’s website is now defunct."

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    ...and of course, the Democrats are now lining it up so it's more profitable for the average Joe NOT to work...
    Please don't make this political. The coronavirus doesn't give a f*ck if you are left or right, what race or religion you are. Not sure how things are elsewhere but here more males are "catching" it than females and the riskiest age group seems to be 60+.

    I don't think getting a sex change will help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    ...and of course, the Democrats are now lining it up so it's more profitable for the average Joe NOT to work...
    Just like the rich guys

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  17. #1373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Health care system starting to crack in NY.
    We have now had patients die in the emergency waiting room as no bed was available in ICU.
    I've been reading, seeing and hearing the same in my usually reliable news media.

    Sorry Scottl.

  18. #1374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    I don't think getting a sex change will help.
    Stick with what you've already done. They are bound to be too busy for elective surgery.

    Danmark isn't likely to discriminate against senile old wimmmin' with vestigial male plumbing anyway, so you can pick one or the other later with a mere box-tick on a census form and avoid the knife altogether.

    Doncha just love enlightened Danish Health Care?

  19. #1375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    I asked you for a LINK, not a vague response. The New York Times has numerous articles on coronavirus each day so please post a link to the exact article from which you got that "information".

    And while we are on the subject of information, it turns out that many of the leaders ordering shutdowns are using predictions based on computer modelling from THIS website:

    Coronavirus Act Now

    Here's an interesting article that points out not only how often reality has fallen short of the predictions (which are being used to shutdown the U.S. economy) but also the political connections of the site's founders.

    Inaccurate Virus Models Are Panicking Officials Into Ill-advised Lockdowns

    "Founders of the site include Democratic Rep. Jonathan Kreiss-Tomkins and three Silicon Valley tech workers and Democratic activists — Zachary Rosen, Max Henderson, and Igor Kofman — who are all also donors to various Democratic campaigns and political organizations since 2016. Henderson and Kofman donated to the Hillary Clinton campaign in 2016, while Rosen donated to the Democratic National Committee, recently resigned Democratic Rep. Katie Hill, and other Democratic candidates. Prior to building the COVID Act Now website, Kofman created an online game designed to raise $1 million for the eventual 2020 Democratic candidate and defeat President Trump. The game’s website is now defunct."
    So they made legal campaign contributions, I thought you were a free speech, money is speech guy? Oh, only for people that agree with you, I see.

    So, how many silicon valley guys do you think are trumpistas?

    How totally predictable that you blame a worldwide virus response on a few guys you politically disagree with


    trumpski blew containment in the early days and the US suffers

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  21. #1376
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    It is my opinion that iodine is a factor in creating T cells, a bone marrow function.
    Not that excess iodine levels are needed but that a body having proper iodine level will produce t cells more efficiently. RE: Not excess levels but avoid having iodine deficiency.
    Darn, now i find coffee is not good for ones thyroid and I am a coffee haulic..
    Food source iodine is best, sea weed, yogurt, cranberries, lima beans, milk, navy beans, dried prunes, boiled egg. Cod fish, shrimp, sardines, Lists are on the internet.

    T Cells - Biology Encyclopedia - body, examples, function, human, process, system, different, organs, blood

    Variable influences of iodine on the T-cell recognition of a single thyroglobulin epitope
    I am sure this is all true, but you have failed to link iodine to virus related fatalities

  22. #1377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post

    Source for that?


    I think it is extremely irresponsible to make statements like that without posting a link to source material. I just took a look at the American Lung Association's COVID-19 page and they are saying there is a lot of misinformation out there.
    quote from the article:
    <<<<<<<<<<<<
    In several hours on Tuesday, Dr. Ashley Bray performed chest compressions at Elmhurst Hospital Center on a woman in her 80s, a man in his 60s and a 38-year-old who reminded the doctor of her fiancé. All had tested positive for the coronavirus and had gone into cardiac arrest. All eventually died.

    Elmhurst, a 545-bed public hospital in Queens, has begun transferring patients not suffering from coronavirus to other hospitals as it moves toward becoming dedicated entirely to the outbreak. Doctors and nurses have struggled to make do with a few dozen ventilators. Calls over a loudspeaker of “Team 700,” the code for when a patient is on the verge of death, come several times a shift. Some have died inside the emergency room while waiting for a bed.

    A refrigerated truck has been stationed outside to hold the bodies of the dead. Over the past 24 hours, New York City’s public hospital system said in a statement, 13 people at Elmhurst had died.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    you know that is irresponsible?
    Treating conspiracy theory as fact.
    Making up unfounded theories and trying to get people to go against the advice of public health professionals

  23. #1378
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    As usual, I still see:

    NO LINKS

    NO SOURCES

    NO FACTS

    Just anecdotal stories of "I saw this" or "I read this".

    And as for that website that is being used by many officials including governors and mayors as a guide for when to "lock it all down", a site promoting inflated predictions started by Democrat activists is as close to a smoking gun as can be found that this is a political campaign to take down Trump by taking down the economy. I'm re-posting the links so they don't get missed among all the Gorilla Dust being thrown up by "the usual suspects".

    Coronavirus Act Now

    Inaccurate Virus Models Are Panicking Officials Into Ill-advised Lockdowns

    Sunlight is the best disinfectant and that is as true for political viruses as it is for organic ones.

    PS: Remember modeler/mathematician/author Tomas Pueyo, mentioned earlier? He's part of the covidactnow project.

  24. #1379
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    I am sure this is all true, but you have failed to link iodine to virus related fatalities
    Yer playin' wit' yerself. No foul. Too many of us have been of late.

    So long as our bodies and immune systems are smarter about nutrition, the absorption and application of Vitamins and trace elements than some of the allegedly higher-order MINDs on display, "right here, on PM" the past few weeks?

    It JFW.

    Meanwhile, "opinions" or internet "links" don't make a damn. Your own gut, and a crazy-large count of beneficial tenant bacteria we are only BEGINNING to understand DO matter.

    Thankfully.

    Do yerself more good to take this enforced idle time and review yer purchasing and food prep and eating habits as to average nutrition.

    COVID-19 or "in general". Healthier folks are usually better at surviving challenges. Of any kind.

    Can't hurt to become more aware as to where your vitamins, Iodine, and a whole LOT more of the small-percentage but crucial trace raw materals DO come from, your own family, yah?

    My roof? Mix of Cantonese, vegetarian, Mediterranean, and other European - NO "fast food" (too DAMNED much salt, sugars, bad fats, other negatives, all of it..) we seem to be in decent shape. Family health and longevity agrees.

    A penchant for whole grains, tree nuts, dried fruits, full-fat milk, a wide variety of cheeses, real butter, use of mushrooms, kelp and other seaweeds...

    Avoidance of salt, refined sugars, high-fructose corn syrups, soft-drinks in general, absolutely NO "diet sweeteners"... yadda, yadda, lo these many years turns out to be to the good side.

    No "fad" diets out of books. Just what we like and do.

    "et tu?"

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  26. #1380
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    And of course a healthy body is necessary to maintain a healthy mind, which raises questions as to the dietary habits of some of the more rabid posters who seem to be "triggered" by others posts and respond with angry rants and insults.

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