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  1. #1701
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    Quote Originally Posted by memphisjed View Post
    Mr. Goldstein, I get you are on the defensive ...
    Not so defensive, but the US has a bad history with regard to lies. The only valid response to HUAC is to stand up and shout "liar ! liar liar liar !" as loud as you can. Otherwise Joseph Goebbels wins.

    We don't need that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    I've always regarded The Guardian as a reliable but boring newspaper.

    Trump's narcissism has taken a new twist. And now he has American blood on his hands
    First decision I made in 1971 when I left home was to get a quality newspaper. I started reading " The Guardian " then and I've been reading it ever since. In fact when Mrs Shoelaces finishes it this morning I'll be reading it today.

    It's only boring if you prefer " Freddie Starr ate my hamster " style of reporting.

    Regards Tyrone.
    Last edited by Tyrone Shoelaces; 03-28-2020 at 06:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    First decision I made in 1971 when I left home was to get a quality newspaper. I started reading " The Guardian " then and I've been reading it ever since. In fact when Mrs Shoelaces finishes it this morning I'll be reading it today.

    It's only boring if you prefer " Freddis Starr ate my hamster " style of reporting.

    Regards Tyrone.
    I really think that "reliable reporting" is a thing of the past nowadays. Brexit has shown this.
    It's now all to do with what side of the fence and who's funding who IMHO...

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    I really think that "reliable reporting" is a thing of the past nowadays. Brexit has shown this.
    It's now all to do with what side of the fence and who's funding who IMHO...
    I'd argue " The Guardian " is the least unreliable of the serious newspapers. " The Times " under it's current ownership isn't what it used to be. We read the " Daily Telegraph " when we're out in Spain because that's all there is in our village and it's become a parody of itself. I find myself laughing out loud at some of the stuff I see in it.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    Over 900 deaths on Friday (3/27/2020) alone in Italy

    Running total of OVER 9000 in Italy

    Coronavirus: More than 900 deaths in a day in Italy - BBC News

    Over 27000 worldwide to date Coronavirus Update (Live): 595,952 Cases and 27,341 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer

    And with it just reaching Africa and India ????? ……..and little or no mention of S.America

    WE AIN'T SEEN NOTHING YET
    I've done a bit more digging
    Populations of the countries I mentioned - who have what is considered poor healthcare (rounded figures from Google)

    Pakistan 197 m

    Bangladesh 164 m

    Indonesia 264 m

    India 1.3 billion

    Africa 1.2 billion

    = 3.125 BILLION PEOPLE

    add in south America ( a lot of which is hardly 1st world ????) @ 422 million

    That gives over 3.5 BILLION people that have hardly been touched by the virus.

    Now if that doesn't scare you, I haven't a clue what will.

    P.S Anyone care to work out the number of possible deaths? (my maths and brain can't handle it)

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    So what are Germany doing different?
    I know that a huge amount of supplies destined to Spain were diverted to Germany approved by Sanchez. Which has left medical staff in Madrid VERY short or with nothing (masks had run out).
    But look at the figures - it's not adding up.
    Why are Italy and Spain being hit so hard but Germany not?
    If it's because Germany is classing deaths as something different (ie Pneumonia) instead of directly attributable to the virus, it makes a mockery of all these charts.
    Standardisation of data is the key but...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails capture.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post

    Have you noticed the No SMELL thing ?

    Eric
    An attempt at humour in a serious situation.

    Loss of smell when you have the runs might be a good thing.

    Get better soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    Stay reasonably well, get better, Cameraman. You too, MattiJ. And TR, you feeling exponentially better yet?
    I am a week out of the mystery flu- I turned the corner on 3/20
    I had had it for weeks but when it stopped I knew immediately.
    Lungs went from fast progression and feeling I was getting really sick to reversal two days later.
    Took maybe two more days to wash out and then good to go.

    The other thing- good days and the others,
    Last night was the other w/debating if hospitalization was needed but didn’t go in.
    Part of the debate was if beds are still open in MD (I think they are) and wondering if they will continue to be so.
    I don’t recommend it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    So what are Germany doing different?
    I know that a huge amount of supplies destined to Spain were diverted to Germany approved by Sanchez. Which has left medical staff in Madrid VERY short or with nothing (masks had run out).
    But look at the figures - it's not adding up.
    Why are Italy and Spain being hit so hard but Germany not?
    If it's because Germany is classing deaths as something different (ie Pneumonia) instead of directly attributable to the virus, it makes a mockery of all these charts.
    Standardisation of data is the key but...
    -Testing volumes: Germany gets everyone tested, Italy and Spain don't have capacity to test and the ones tested are already badly ill.
    -Age, most infected in Germany are younger folks, this started from people returning from Italy from skiing holidays and partying --> first ones were generally young and healthy folks

    Multiply the number or cases by ten in Italy and Spain and multiply the death rate in Germany by another ten to account for age and German numbers are pretty much in line.

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    Great for Germany..still I wonder how they had that many test kits on hand if everybody is/has been tested.
    Germany population about 84 million.

    Most Germans I know are self thinkers, so many would have taken precaution before the media or government told then what to do..IMHO.

    QT:[If it's because Germany is classing deaths as something different (ie Pneumonia) instead of directly attributable to the virus, it makes a mockery of all these charts.]
    Is there any evidence of this ? or is it just heresay?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    -Testing volumes: Germany gets everyone tested, Italy and Spain don't have capacity to test and the ones tested are already badly ill.
    -Age, most infected in Germany are younger folks, this started from people returning from Italy from skiing holidays and partying --> first ones were generally young and healthy folks

    Multiply the number or cases by ten in Italy and Spain and multiply the death rate in Germany by another ten to account for age and German numbers are pretty much in line.
    I don't know with Italy, but do know that Spain is hardly testing anyone - unless as you say, they are admitted/ill.
    So if Germany is literally testing everyone, then it would be fair to assume that as a ratio Spain (and perhaps Italy) actually has a HUGE amount more people infected than showing.

    Age - have you any data which shows this (Germany being younger)?

    And why the multiply by 10 factor. How does this ratio account for age/health?

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Great for Germany..still I wonder how they had that many test kits on hand if everybody is/has been tested.
    Germany population about 84 million.

    QT:[If it's because Germany is classing deaths as something different (ie Pneumonia) instead of directly attributable to the virus, it makes a mockery of all these charts.]
    Is there any evidence of this ? or is it just heresay?
    The scuttlebutt in US is that deaths with presumptive positive are off the list so our numbers will have some low count as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post

    QT:[If it's because Germany is classing deaths as something different (ie Pneumonia) instead of directly attributable to the virus, it makes a mockery of all these charts.]
    Is there any evidence of this ? or is it just heresay?
    No that's just me wondering.
    There's a huge disparity here which must be for a reason (death classification/genetics/blood group/ etc???)

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    No that's just me wondering.
    There's a huge disparity here which must be for a reason (death classification/genetics/blood group/ etc???)
    RE: Most Germans I know are self thinkers, so many would have taken precaution before the media or government told then what to do..IMHO.

    Take care with just wondering or the fake news will start posting the same..
    Still you could be right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    RE: Most Germans I know are self thinkers, so many would have taken precaution before the media or government told then what to do..IMHO.

    Take care with just wondering or the fake news will start posting the same..
    Still you could be right.
    Yes i get that ref the Germans being self thinkers - but they're still 5th in the chart for cases.
    Unless that's because their's are the only accurate figures because they do test far more people than all other countries?

    I follow a neurologist on twitter who is working out of Malaga (Spain) and she was the one which highlighted this to me (last night).
    And also the fact that a HUGE amount of their supplies were diverted to Germany.
    Got to keep the bosses happy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    From where?
    local scientific supply company that supplies small labs, drs offices, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    I don't know with Italy, but do know that Spain is hardly testing anyone - unless as you say, they are admitted/ill.
    So if Germany is literally testing everyone, then it would be fair to assume that as a ratio Spain (and perhaps Italy) actually has a HUGE amount more people infected than showing.

    Age - have you any data which shows this (Germany being younger)?

    And why the multiply by 10 factor. How does this ratio account for age/health?
    German age distribution was somewhere but I’m now playing on mobile and unable to dig out large pdf’s. If Italy and Spain would have enough testing capacity it would show large amount of mild cases among younger people.
    (Italy and Spain have probably still larger percentage of older people infected due to cultural differences)

    Mortality for people under 50 is something like 0.2% and for age over 70 its like 10% so it makes huge difference if infected are young or older folks.

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  23. #1718
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    I've done a bit more digging
    Populations of the countries I mentioned - who have what is considered poor healthcare (rounded figures from Google)

    Pakistan 197 m

    Bangladesh 164 m

    Indonesia 264 m

    India 1.3 billion

    Africa 1.2 billion

    = 3.125 BILLION PEOPLE

    add in south America ( a lot of which is hardly 1st world ????) @ 422 million

    That gives over 3.5 BILLION people that have hardly been touched by the virus.

    Now if that doesn't scare you, I haven't a clue what will.

    P.S Anyone care to work out the number of possible deaths? (my maths and brain can't handle it)
    One of my near neighbours is from a Pakistani background. He's the local " Samosa " King who supplies all the local
    Asian restaurants with samosas. He's not short of a bob or two as we say up here. He paid cash for his very nice house. He took his immediate family out to Pakistan for a family wedding just before this kicked off properly, now he's marooned out in Pakistan.
    I was talking to one of his friends the other day and he said my neighbour isn't too bothered about rushing back to the UK. They're holed up in a tiny village with not much in coming traffic. He reckons he's safer in Pakistan !

    Regards Tyrone.

  24. #1719
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    And one lesson I hope we learn from this is that some basic medical-goods infrastructure MUST be available within every region of the country. The ability to make filter masks, gloves and basic medical gowns and other PPE, even some bio-labs for testing kits manufacture once protocols are established - all this should be considered vital, and part of the national "Armory".

    Let's not forget this period. I know it sounds unlikely at the moment, but we have the collective memory of a senile goldfish for most things. The early 2020's mustn't be forgotten or ignored!
    Absolutely! The fact that at least 2 countries withheld medical supplies destined for the USA in case their own people needed them shows the madness of global supply chains for critical items. I don't blame the countries for putting their own people first but the U.S. needs to takeaway from this the lesson that supplies from overseas can be cut off for any number of reasons and it creates a dangerous vulnerability.

    On a personal note, in my household we've always viewed each crisis as a learning opportunity that exposes issues that need to be corrected BEFORE the next crisis and a nation should operate on the same principle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    I don't know with Italy, but do know that Spain is hardly testing anyone - unless as you say, they are admitted/ill.
    So if Germany is literally testing everyone, then it would be fair to assume that as a ratio Spain (and perhaps Italy) actually has a HUGE amount more people infected than showing.

    Age - have you any data which shows this (Germany being younger)?

    And why the multiply by 10 factor. How does this ratio account for age/health?
    Germany is actually older than italy

    I posted a link to an article on some reasons why Germany has done better.

    First, their initial cases were healthy people returning from Italian ski vaca
    Second they tracked contacts as did Singapore, Korea etc[something the US failed to do]
    Third they are testing, but in a targeted fashion

    Oh, and they seem to be to some extent, catchin up


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