Is the correct term planing or shaping?

crossthread · Oct 7, 2020

I got into a discussion recently with a friend who wanted me to "plane" a part for his steam engine. Being the pedantic type, he informed me that if the part was stationary with the cutting tool passing back and forth over the stock, it was referred to as shaping not planing. If the cutting tool is stationary and the stock moves back and forth, it is in fact planing. I told him it didn't matter one way or the other and he informed me that I was too old to learn anything. Is he correct (not about me being too old to learn anything)?

Scottl · Oct 7, 2020

I believe he is correct. AFAIK on a shaper the ram moves the cutting tool against the work and on a planer the work moves lengthwise under the cutter.

Disclaimer: I have never owned or used either.

I believe the major difference is that the planer design is more suited to long work like lathe beds and the shaper is more versatile in the way it can orient work in relation to the cutting ram.

crossthread · Oct 7, 2020

Well, that's good to know. I acquired a South Bend shaper (almost free) some time ago at the suggestion of you fine folks on this forum. I really didn't know if I wanted it but it has actually come in handy a few times. It's also quite fun to run. Kind of hypnotic, which at my age can be a blessing.

bhigdog · Oct 7, 2020

A shaper may not be a production type machine but one can sure come in handy for roughing stock and gross removal of material. Often set a cut and do something else until you hear the click of the tool holder stop. Instead of pricey cutters a humble tool bit will make chips for hours asking only an occasional trip to the grinding wheel.
The only thing I don't like about them are the hot, hard, curlicue chips that bounce all over the place and crunch when you walk on them......Bob

Tyrone Shoelaces · Oct 7, 2020

Your pal is correct.

Regards Tyrone.

Ron Hofer · Oct 7, 2020

crossthread said:
I got into a discussion recently with a friend who wanted me to "plane" a part for his steam engine. Being the pedantic type, he informed me that if the part was stationary with the cutting tool passing back and forth over the stock, it was referred to as shaping not planing. If the cutting tool is stationary and the stock moves back and forth, it is in fact planing. I told him it didn't matter one way or the other and he informed me that I was too old to learn anything. Is he correct (not about me being too old to learn anything)?

Regardless of the proper term, I'd be inclined to tell Mr. Pedant he can 'shape' his own part.

johnoder · Oct 7, 2020

I like their results - not that I ever expected them to be revenue devices. Here is the 36" Ohio making a crookedy sawed 14" alum slug somewhat parallel again.

gmach10 · Oct 7, 2020

bhigdog said:
A shaper may not be a production type machine but one can sure come in handy for roughing stock and gross removal of material. Often set a cut and do something else until you hear the click of the tool holder stop. Instead of pricey cutters a humble tool bit will make chips for hours asking only an occasional trip to the grinding wheel.
The only thing I don't like about them are the hot, hard, curlicue chips that bounce all over the place and crunch when you walk on them......Bob

I was running a shaper years ago and one of those curlicue chips flew hit me in the forehead. It being crazy hot made my cat like reflexes react by swatting it away. Which resulted in me having a ying yang scare for a while. Damn cool machine to run though. I just got a Logan 7" can't wait to make some chips.

CarbideBob · Oct 7, 2020

Tyrone Shoelaces said:
Your pal is correct...

Or your pal is a fool , anal about wording and not understanding metal cutting.
Bob

Mcgyver · Oct 8, 2020

CarbideBob said:
anal about wording
Bob

No, we're in an exact craft. Using the right terminology matters.

I got into a discussion recently with a friend who wanted me to "plane" a part for his steam engine. Being the pedantic type, he informed me that if the part was stationary with the cutting tool passing back and forth over the stock, it was referred to as shaping not planing. If the cutting tool is stationary and the stock moves back and forth, it is in fact planing. I told him it didn't matter one way or the other and he informed me that I was too old to learn anything. Is he correct (not about me being too old to learn anything)?

so he wanted you to "plane" it, and knows you have a shaper? Unless the last bit was just good natured ribbing, I'd tell him it really does need planing and he better find someone with planner

crossthread · Oct 8, 2020

It was all in good spirits. I have known this guy for many years and he is quite a craftsman. He just doesn't own any machinist tools to speak of. I have worked on a couple of his hit and miss engines and made some parts for his steam engines he collects.

Lewie · Oct 8, 2020

Interesting, Since Woodworking has been around for a LOT longer than metal, and as anyone knows a "plane" (in the wood working world) moves over the work, How did the idea that the work moves over the cutter in Planer????
...lewie...

fciron · Oct 8, 2020

Generally, "planing" refers to shaving something down to produce a flat surface, while "shaping" refers to a whole host of processes and is an imprecise term in most fields. (We shape clay with our hands, sheet metal with a hammer and dolly, wood with a chisel, etc. Most of which have little relation to the action of a metal shaper and produce shapes other than a flat surface. Hell, a wood shaper is a big router table.

)

IMO your friend is correct about the distinction between a shaper and a planer. However, the resulting cutting action is identical and the work of either machine could be called "planing" and the term "shaping" should be avoided here.

richard newman · Oct 8, 2020

I think shapers & planers are really cool, would love to have one to play with. What I really like is the texture/pattern they leave on the surface. All sorts of possibilities for decorative objects, which is what I make.

When I began my career in woodworking with older machines, I couldn't figure out what had created that surface on my jointer tables. Afew years later in the 70's I saw an entire 24" jointer being set up on a planer for table resurfacing at Hermance Machine in PA. The guy doing it was pretty ancient (probably younger than I am now) and moving very slowly. Didn't appreciate that he was probably a treasure of arcane & lost knowledge.

Just a thought- the reciprocal action of the shaper seems to be what fascinates everyone, could their be a subliminal sexual thing going on here - that heavy, rigid, iron ram stroking away tirelessly?

TGTool · Oct 8, 2020

richard newman said:
Just a thought- the reciprocal action of the shaper seems to be what fascinates everyone, could their be a subliminal sexual thing going on here - that heavy, rigid, iron ram stroking away tirelessly?

Should probably poll the wives/girlfriends on that one. A machine that will stoke as long as you like without getting tired or quitting too soon? What's not to like?

Bill D · Oct 8, 2020

A powered shaper or planer has a very different meaning in woodworking. In both the cutter rotates under power and the work also moves along the cutter. Somewhat like a milling machine but the work is pushed along the table past the spinning cutter.
Bil lD

neanderthal mach · Oct 8, 2020

No, we're in an exact craft. Using the right terminology matters.

I couldn't agree more with Mcgyver, using the correct terminology is or should be important. It's the basic first step in communication using agreed to and accepted terms. Shapers and Planers have two distinct and separate names for good reason. Each designates how the machine works in one single descriptive word. Either the tool moves over the work with a shaper, or the work moves under the tool with a planer. Using both names interchangeably to mean the same thing could in some cases cause confusion for what is really meant. How many posts that are usually started by entry level people get further questions here simply because there terminology is incorrect for what they really mean? If using the correct terminology isn't that important then calling a surface grinder a planer since they move the work in much the same way would also be acceptable. If someone posted a question here about "How do I set up my shaper to re-machine a 12' lathe bed", you can bet that would get questions first instead of information about how to set up a planer to do the same.

Bill D · Oct 8, 2020

I wonder if this sharp distinction is also true in other languages. I have read "lathing" as a verb by inexperienced native English speakers.
I have to say a planer, AFAIK, forms the work into a flat plane. A shaper can form a flat plane or shape a groove or complex shape into the work piece.
Bill D

trevj · Oct 8, 2020

Mcgyver said:
No, we're in an exact craft. Using the right terminology matters.

so he wanted you to "plane" it, and knows you have a shaper? Unless the last bit was just good natured ribbing, I'd tell him it really does need planing and he better find someone with planner

Speaking of right terminology...

Once he finds someone with a planner, they should make a note in their planner, that they are needing someone with a Planer!

Tyrone Shoelaces · Oct 8, 2020

CarbideBob said:
Or your pal is a fool , anal about wording and not understanding metal cutting.
Bob

I suppose it helps if you've actually worked on shapers and planers and not just seen them in photographs.

Regards Tyrone.

Is the correct term planing or shaping?

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