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  1. #21
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    The 40 position QCTP, whether made by Minder in Switzerland or one of the clones, can be equipped with the model FE (external) and FI (internal) lever-retracting threading tools that take Comet form-type cutters. They make single point threading on ordinary lathes almost as easy as on a Hardinge HLV-H, which has a retracting compound slide.

    I have not seen retracting threading holders on any other quick change tool post system. The threading holders are what made me buy my Swiss 40 position set back in 1980 or so. Never regretted it.

    Larry

  2. #22
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    That sounds interesting. Can you post a link?



    Quote Originally Posted by L Vanice View Post
    The 40 position QCTP, whether made by Minder in Switzerland or one of the clones, can be equipped with the model FE (external) and FI (internal) lever-retracting threading tools that take Comet form-type cutters. They make single point threading on ordinary lathes almost as easy as on a Hardinge HLV-H, which has a retracting compound slide.

    I have not seen retracting threading holders on any other quick change tool post system. The threading holders are what made me buy my Swiss 40 position set back in 1980 or so. Never regretted it.

    Larry

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPAIII View Post
    That sounds interesting. Can you post a link?
    AXA Ruckzugstahlhalter Innengewinde R 11/IG/I = Multifix A fur Innengewinde AIG | stahlhalter24
    AXA Ruckzugstahlhalter Aussengewinde R 11/FG/I = MULTIFIX AFG I | stahlhalter24

    Mind you the insert for the external tool costs about $150 from what I've heard. *If* you can find it.

    EDIT:

    https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/62742994

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    EPAIII:

    I spend enough time as it is working "on" my shop instead of working "in" it. I don't have the time to make my own toolpost because my time is spent on making things I can't buy. There are numerous threads about Create Tool on this forum with people being very pleased with their product. I'm sorry but making your toolpost just isn't realistic for me at this time.

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    A homemade toolpost is great and all for a little hobby lathe. For a machine that is used often or for serious work that's under time constraint I don't think it's a great solution unless you harden it to a pretty high level then grind the important registering surfaces, like the ones that are sold on the market. The long-term durability and repeatability will not be there without it. Every time a bit of grit or small fine swarf accidentally gets in the mix (yes it does happen, many people are not very careful about this) it can raise a ding or burr if the steel is not fully hardened. An Aloris post or holder for example can't even be touched with a file, it just skates.

    Aside from that, I can't see that tiny central post on the homemade toolpost being as rigid as either Aloris or the 40-position posts, which generally cover nearly the entire available surface area on the top of the compound. That's important when taking heavy roughing cuts, especially with a boring bar at longer L to D ratios.

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  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by L Vanice View Post
    The 40 position QCTP, whether made by Minder in Switzerland or one of the clones, can be equipped with the model FE (external) and FI (internal) lever-retracting threading tools that take Comet form-type cutters. They make single point threading on ordinary lathes almost as easy as on a Hardinge HLV-H, which has a retracting compound slide.

    I have not seen retracting threading holders on any other quick change tool post system. The threading holders are what made me buy my Swiss 40 position set back in 1980 or so. Never regretted it.

    Larry
    The Tripan tool post system at one time offered retracting threading holders. Looking at their current information here: https://tripan.ch/files/Tripan%20-%20Doc.pdf it looks like these are no longer offered.

    The only thing I know about the Tripan tool posts is based on pictures I've seen online and a few rare references to them on assorted machining forums. The retracting threading holders were shown in a brochure that Anglo Swiss Tools (Anglo-Swiss Tools - Anglo-Swiss Tools) used to have on their website but it is no longer there.

    David

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    you can get the inserts for about $30 from ifanger (hss).

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  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by L Vanice View Post
    The 40 position QCTP, whether made by Minder in Switzerland or one of the clones, can be equipped with the model FE (external) and FI (internal) lever-retracting threading tools that take Comet form-type cutters. They make single point threading on ordinary lathes almost as easy as on a Hardinge HLV-H, which has a retracting compound slide.

    I have not seen retracting threading holders on any other quick change tool post system. The threading holders are what made me buy my Swiss 40 position set back in 1980 or so. Never regretted it.

    Larry
    I am pretty sure I read in one of the other threads on create tools toolpost that they make the retracting threaders. They are not stocked or listed, but special order IIRC. Might not matter if they are not responding. I dont think I ever read anything bad posted about them.

    edit to add:
    In this great thread on the create tool posts, look at posts 57-58 for retracting threaders, Nina will make them (back then anyway):
    Multifix Toolholder Clone Review

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    Quote Originally Posted by dian View Post
    you can get the inserts for about $30 from ifanger (hss).
    Very interesting, these certainly look like the inserts Komet made. https://www.ifanger.com/files/conten...ing_tools2.pdf

    Even more interesting, if you scroll down the page there's a retracting tool holder for these. Wonder who distributes these in the U.S. (Though I already have the retracting threading holder from SRW Amestra plus two 60 degree and one 55 degree Komet inserts.)

    More info: Looks like these people are the US distributer: Home - Alouette Tool Company LTD. Didn't mean to spend this much time on this this morning...


    David

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    Thanks for the links.

    Wish I had paid more attention in German classes. But they do look good. Expensive, but good.




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    I do understand the reluctance to take valuable time out of the work day "just to make a tool". In my working life I spent more hours than I care to remember at the work bench, often doing jobs that required a lot of time with the tools available. For years, for decades even, I thought nothing more of it. After all, I had seen others doing the same jobs with the same tools and they used the same amount of time as I did or often even more due to my experience. I just plowed through.

    One day I was doing one of those jobs that I had done many hundreds, if not thousands of times before and I wondered if it could not be accomplished faster with better tools. First I timed myself and I found that I could reasonably do that job only four times each hour, counting in time for necessary breaks. Perhaps just a fraction more than four if I really stuck to it, but that also entailed the risk of errors and remedial work which would take even more time. So four per hour was a good figure.

    Then I started thinking about what tools would make that job not just easier, but FASTER. In a few days time I had made a collection of four tools that did just that. I probably had spent a full working day on those four tools: well eight hours scattered in intervals over those few days. I was lucky enough to be in a one man shop with on one looking over my shoulder all the time. Anyway, with those four new and unique tools, I found that I could do that same job, with the same level of quality in just FIVE minutes. No strain! No rush! But an honest five minutes! That meant that I could do do eleven of them in the same hour with the same five minute break to collect my wits or visit the men's room or whatever. That was almost a 300% increase in productivity. Just think of the time (and money) I would have saved if I had thought of those tools 30 or 40 years earlier.

    So, YES I do understand your reluctance to take the time to make a tool. I do understand that it can be looked upon as non-productive time. But I also have seen places where an initial investment in a little time can lead to a large increase in future productivity. That is also known as a cost savings. And that is exactly the way that I feel about my quick change tool post. It may have started out as a way of making a quick change tool post without spending too much money, but when I started using it, I quickly found that it was a real time saver over any of the other designs that I had seen. And that is why I try to make it known. It may seem like a tool for a small, home shop or for a hobbyist, but I really feel that it can be a time saver in a commercial shop. Perhaps not in all commercial shops, but at the very least, in some.

    And there is absolutely no need to either explain your situation nor to apologize for it. I really do understand. And I hope that no matter what you decide on, it turns out well for you.



    Quote Originally Posted by mathamattox View Post
    EPAIII:

    I spend enough time as it is working "on" my shop instead of working "in" it. I don't have the time to make my own toolpost because my time is spent on making things I can't buy. There are numerous threads about Create Tool on this forum with people being very pleased with their product. I'm sorry but making your toolpost just isn't realistic for me at this time.

  15. #32
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    My tool post is made with steel. Steel, can be hardened if the correct alloy is selected.

    As for a loss of accuracy due to wear, my design is self compensating for that.

    I have not measured the footprint of an Aloris post, but when scaled for the machine it will be used on, my post does cover most of the surface of the compound. The Aloris post has moving parts inside the post and these moving parts are in HOLES in the post. The post itself is only a fraction (50%, 60%, or ??) of the mass of what you apparently see. The rest is those holes. That decreases the rigidity. My post is solid with only one hole for the hold-down stud. This stud, when tightened, places the rest of the post in compression which only increases the strength and rigidity of the post. The wrap around nature of the tool holders further compresses the post and the entire thing becomes like one solid piece of steel. No moving parts on the inside. It IS SOLID!

    On top of that the contact between an Aloris post and the dovetail holders amounts to only a fraction of a square inch. And this area is divided between two narrow areas of the dovetails with another relatively small area in the center of the dovetails where the holder presses against the post. In contrast, my holders have several square inches of contact and are much harder to move out of the locked position. Again, once the holder is locked in place it is like ONE SOLID PIECE OF STEEL. Any motion from the cutting forces would be much harder to produce.

    If the post or the holders accumulate wear, it is a simple matter to just tighten the locking screw a bit more to compensate. In fact, this is what the user would automatically do on every tool holder installation, without even thinking. The design is self compensating for wear to a very great extent. As for any dings, I imagine they would not survive for long with frequent tool changes.

    I have not studied the inner workings of the 40 position style posts or the locking mechanism they use to secure the holders, but I can not imagine that it is as sturdy as my design.

    Another point with my design is that the mating surfaces are self cleaning. The close fit produces a wiping action as the holder is lowered in place on the post so any chips or particles of grit are simply wiped off. The Aloris and the piston style dovetail posts use larger clearances so there is a much greater chance of chips and dirt getting on the locking surfaces.



    Quote Originally Posted by eKretz View Post
    A homemade toolpost is great and all for a little hobby lathe. For a machine that is used often or for serious work that's under time constraint I don't think it's a great solution unless you harden it to a pretty high level then grind the important registering surfaces, like the ones that are sold on the market. The long-term durability and repeatability will not be there without it. Every time a bit of grit or small fine swarf accidentally gets in the mix (yes it does happen, many people are not very careful about this) it can raise a ding or burr if the steel is not fully hardened. An Aloris post or holder for example can't even be touched with a file, it just skates.

    Aside from that, I can't see that tiny central post on the homemade toolpost being as rigid as either Aloris or the 40-position posts, which generally cover nearly the entire available surface area on the top of the compound. That's important when taking heavy roughing cuts, especially with a boring bar at longer L to D ratios.

  16. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_dave View Post
    The Tripan tool post system at one time offered retracting threading holders. Looking at their current information here: https://tripan.ch/files/Tripan%20-%20Doc.pdf it looks like these are no longer offered.

    The only thing I know about the Tripan tool posts is based on pictures I've seen online and a few rare references to them on assorted machining forums. The retracting threading holders were shown in a brochure that Anglo Swiss Tools (Anglo-Swiss Tools - Anglo-Swiss Tools) used to have on their website but it is no longer there.

    David
    Yes they are available again and it looks like they have gone away from specifically Ifanger or komet tips like they used to use
    Porte-outil a fileter Tripan(R) 190
    - SwissKH

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    Quote Originally Posted by EPAIII View Post
    HOLES in the post. The post itself is only a fraction (50%, 60%, or ??) of the mass of what you apparently see. [...] No moving parts on the inside. It IS SOLID!

    [...]

    I have not studied the inner workings of the 40 position style posts or the locking mechanism they use to secure the holders, but I can not imagine that it is as sturdy as my design.

    [...]

    Another point with my design is that the mating surfaces are self cleaning. The close fit produces a wiping action as the holder is lowered in place on the post so any chips or particles of grit are simply wiped off.
    The multifix post is a solid block of steel sans a mounting bolt and sometimes two dowel holes for locating on foreign machines. The holders slip on with tight tolerance, wiping stray chips clear of the interface into the roots and crests of the spline. Haven't measured but it feels like roughly 5 or 10 thousandths depending on the position of the cam. Sometimes they don't drop down under gravity and have to be wiggled just a bit.


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    Quote Originally Posted by old_dave View Post
    Very interesting, these certainly look like the inserts Komet made. https://www.ifanger.com/files/conten...ing_tools2.pdf

    Even more interesting, if you scroll down the page there's a retracting tool holder for these. Wonder who distributes these in the U.S. (Though I already have the retracting threading holder from SRW Amestra plus two 60 degree and one 55 degree Komet inserts.)

    More info: Looks like these people are the US distributer: Home - Alouette Tool Company LTD. Didn't mean to spend this much time on this this morning...


    David
    If anyone wants a contact for Alouette Tool, PM me, I have a guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwud View Post
    Yes they are available again and it looks like they have gone away from specifically Ifanger or komet tips like they used to use
    Porte-outil a fileter Tripan(R) 190
    - SwissKH
    Thank you for this, so in fact the Tripan retracting threading holder is still available. Checked the price in USD today; CF760 is $845, rather more than the German AXA brand that Just a Sparky cited.

    David

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    If anyone wants a contact for Alouette Tool, PM me, I have a guy.
    Thank you for this.

    David


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