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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmax View Post
    They do, but sometimes when we question things their response is "well that's not our problem figure out how to build it." This product change however was completed long before I was with the company. Nonetheless I have already pushed for a product change on this, my assumption is nothing will happen. Hence the custom wrench to save our operators time and risk of injury.
    You need to "run it up the flagpole" and speak bean counter language to upper management.
    Show how much custom wrenches cost, show much longer the assemblers take.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmax View Post
    They do, but sometimes when we question things their response is "well that's not our problem figure out how to build it." This product change however was completed long before I was with the company. Nonetheless I have already pushed for a product change on this, my assumption is nothing will happen. Hence the custom wrench to save our operators time and risk of injury.
    Tempering for 50Rc(495bhn) 414x(at 600°f) or 615x(at 700°f) steels put them both at their lowest possible impact rating and below 10 ft/lbs (IZOD test). IME, good HT folks would question your use & if not for making washers advise you it’s unwise. There are hot work tool steels that do a little better but the chemistry adds cost.

    Also in your case (as I see this) friction should moderate the impact effects on the stationary wrench? It doesn’t look like a big enough hole to be a slugger wrench type operation.

    Seeing that wonky hole you have to negotiate I have to imagine someone pushing the threaded portion through a hole with another fellow with 2 fingers holding a nut COULD BE ENTERTAINING to watch. LOL, Also seeing as you are I/E aren't you guys also the safety nazis in the house?

    Good luck,
    Matt

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  4. #23
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    Sometimes the operator could damage the wrench. Thusly...

    Snap Wrenches in Half & the Invulnerable Handshake! - YouTube

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    You could try Vascomax 300 or 350. Tensile is as indicated by the numbers, elongation is in the 15% area so it's extremely tough as well.

    Unfortunately, that kind of performance does not come free. Ages ago it was around $15/lb. Nowadays you might need a bigger calculator ...

    Hey, they designed it, not your fault !

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    Some places waste is no object but safety can move mountains.
    If this place has a strong safety culture, you just have to clearly identify the risk to get a design change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NRDock View Post
    If this place has a strong safety culture ...
    Translation into english : fear of lawsuits

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmax View Post
    I have a need to design a custom wrench for my company's assembly line. My first prototype was made from 4140 steel, hardened to RC 50-53 and black oxide coated. I thought for sure this would be strong enough as it the same material we use for other custom wrenches. However due to the high torque load on this wrench (220 ft-lbs), it broke after just 3 uses. See attached picture. Unfortunately, due to the size constraints of the product, I cannot significantly change the geometry of the wrench in order to help with strain relief. Anyone have any suggestions of another material that may be more durable for this application? Obviously we want to keep the cost to produce relatively low as well.
    Difficult to say from the angle of the pic but it does not appear to me to be an instantaneous fracture that 3 cycles would suggest. Looks like two fracture fronts which is not consistent with that. You can’t have two fracture origins in an instantaneous crack. There also appears to be a pre-existing crack along the fracture face, possibly a quench crack. I’m referring to the dark area along the leading edge of the crack. If that is in fact there, it won’t matter what material you use. You would need a redesign.

    You might want a metallurgist look at it.

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    Ive said a million times in my career, the Engineer that designed it should be the first to build, run, operate or fix it.

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    What is supposed to happen in the field? Do you expect repeat customers when they have to throw away your machine because a wrench will not fit. I would never buy another machine from your company if you knowingly design them so they can not be worked on. Unless they are so cheap to buy that they are disposable and cheaper then buying a real machine that can be worked on.
    How will the John Deere law affect this design? If it needs a custom tool, that does not exist, can it even be sold in the USA?
    Bill D

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    Here find a tool shop and end wrenches with their upper limit
    of Changeable-Head Torque Wrenches/open end
    McMaster-Carr

    I think any homemade wrench should be bench tested for these numbers ..and perhaps 15 or 20% more to be considered a safe wrench..

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    Substitute a 12 point double hex aviation-style nut in place of existing. Look at the specifications. I believe you will then have room for an off the self box-end wrench.

    Edit: Cole in post #13 beat me to it.
    Last edited by David_M; 07-26-2021 at 10:54 PM.

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    I like the idea of using the recess take up the load while tightening. If you can't make a custom nut, can you make the wrench to fit the void between the nut and that vee shaped recess. If you make it fit on just one side (the right side for tightening) it just may work. If the nut is always well centered (or located) in that vee recess, you could probably make a wrench where both sides fill the recess.

    If that does not work, it may be possible to design a two piece wrench with two sides that can slide in all the way. Just hold it in and tighten the bolt. The stress is transferred to the part with the vee. You may need a hammer to tap on the wrench to loosen it after tightening the bolt.



    Quote Originally Posted by AckshunW View Post
    What about, forget about the wrench --- How about a custom nut shaped to fill the void / key into / jam against the "V" shaped recess?

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    Quote Originally Posted by David_M View Post
    Substitute a 12 point double hex aviation-style nut in place of existing. Look at the specifications. I believe you will then have room for an off the self box-end wrench.
    They get tricky to find in larger sizes. McMaster has them to 5/8-18:

    McMaster-Carr

    But it sounds like the OP needs some thing bigger, which gets even more expensive. I've seen larger, but usually they're "custom made" by SPS or similar for Mil/Aerospace use. Cost? Don't ask...

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    What if you extend the open ends of the wrench to make contact with the walls of the part. That way it wouldn't be capable of spreading when under pressure. Looks as though taper would keep it from getting wedged.

    I got beat to this idea. And he explained it better.

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    For the fun of it went looking for a price on Vascomax - McMaster even has 1" round, runs about $30/lb, not as bad as I feared.

    And came across this on a steel co. site, kinda funny :

    "Annealing can increase hardness from 28 to 30 Rockwell C to 35 Rockwell C"

    Not too many materials you anneal to make harder ...

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    The access hole seems like it could be made a little more in length so as to allow a stouter wrench.

    Test might prove a smaller bolt and nut might sufice so allowing a smaller nut and stouter wrench

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    What is supposed to happen in the field? Do you expect repeat customers when they have to throw away your machine because a wrench will not fit. I would never buy another machine from your company if you knowingly design them so they can not be worked on. Unless they are so cheap to buy that they are disposable and cheaper then buying a real machine that can be worked on.
    How will the John Deere law affect this design? If it needs a custom tool, that does not exist, can it even be sold in the USA?
    Bill D
    It is possible to tighten or loosen without a custom wrench, we've been doing it for years. It is just a serious pain and very inefficient process. Customers are aware of it and willing to deal with it since it is not a common failure point. I guess our mentality is not that different that most modern car manufacturers, maintenance and serviceability in the field is not of primary concern to product engineers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_Maguire View Post
    Tempering for 50Rc(495bhn) 414x(at 600°f) or 615x(at 700°f) steels put them both at their lowest possible impact rating and below 10 ft/lbs (IZOD test). IME, good HT folks would question your use & if not for making washers advise you it’s unwise. There are hot work tool steels that do a little better but the chemistry adds cost.

    Also in your case (as I see this) friction should moderate the impact effects on the stationary wrench? It doesn’t look like a big enough hole to be a slugger wrench type operation.

    Seeing that wonky hole you have to negotiate I have to imagine someone pushing the threaded portion through a hole with another fellow with 2 fingers holding a nut COULD BE ENTERTAINING to watch. LOL, Also seeing as you are I/E aren't you guys also the safety nazis in the house?

    Good luck,
    Matt
    Your description of how this is installed is completely accurate! LOL. One operator tries to hold and align the nut, while another pushes the bolt through and tries to thread it on.

    And safety should always be our top priority, which is why I am trying to make this improvement. Sometimes it is shocking to me the amount of things that everyone ignores just because it has "always been that way."

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    Thanks again everyone for the responses. I am going to try the material change to 6150 as suggested awhile back as well as redesign the wrench to be more of a socket that fits into the "vee" of the part, thus allowing the part to take most of the load. I really appreciate everyone's feedback. I'll update this thread once our machine shop gets the second prototype made.

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    Make it thicker too.

    More meat in same narrow space

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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