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Designing experiment for penetrating oils

A

AdamPrince2

Plastic
Joined
May 10, 2011
Location
Honeoye Falls, NY
I purchased 100 3/8" grade 5 bolts with nuts and washers of a known material. I'm going to torque them all to the same torque after ultrasonic cleaning. Then expose them to HCL acid to corrode them in a controlled way for a set time. Finally, I'll apply different penetrating oils to a sample set of 10 with a set of 10 controls and breaking them loose with a torque wrench after a set time.

I need a way to record maximum break loose torque applied. Will I have to purchase a dial type torque wrench with a memory needle or is there a way I could accomplish the same thing with a beam torque wrench?

Thank you
 
Quick and dirty (AKA cheap) get a spring balance (possibly with a tell tale needle) and hook it to the wrench at a known distance from the business end

Thus - ''Known distance'' in feet x lbs reading on balance = torque
 
Reminds me back in my HS days. I called the local talk radio show and asked a question that was on my homework...Nice and easy and no one knew the difference :-) J/k lol...not saying thats what is going on here..but made me think of my simple economics question I needed help with...That was way before computers and You Tube...

Hell the wife bought me a talking computer for Xmas...so cool and I now have a new GF named Alexa....the wife is jealous I think....lol
 
Torque wrench with USB or rs232 output?
Seems to that you want to record the breaking torque as well increasing the torque in an even and controlled and repeatable manner. Repeatabily is an important part of this kind of testing.
 
I think the beam type best because you can read the torque and make a note of it. I don’t know if they loose accuracy going past half way so good to ask a torque wrench company that question. Are you looking to produce a new product or just to test what is on the market?
*Agree likely you can find results of this test being done in the past.
Most mechanics get a small movement, add more penetrate and work back and forth..Perhaps do that on some and note the procedure..
Perhaps get another 5 set of bolts and use the second set for the back and forth method.

I think most of that product can be dangerous to get on skin or to get in lungs..So take care for that.

Also consider if they all lock up solid and just break at the first test you wont learn much.. perhaps needing many sets of bolts and many test conditions..one condition being time setting..

I have found that to add a drop or two each day for a week makes penetrating stuff work better.
 
Using the methods you describe (torque wrench) will not produce results that are 'scientific' but rather 'kinda close'. But this sounds like a school project anyway so I guess that's good enough.

The only crowd worse than the 'penetrating oil' crowd is the 'spark plug' crowd....people who fervently believe that most (penetrating oils / spark plugs) suck but there is the one magic (penetrating oil / spark plug) that will unleash its fury unto the (frozen bolt / combustion chamber) and lead one to glory. But at least with the spark plug crowd you don't people making their own out in the garage for pennies on the dollar.

Actually, I guess the motor oil crowd is pretty bad, too.
 
GregSY said:
Using the methods you describe (torque wrench) will not produce results that are 'scientific' but rather 'kinda close'. But this sounds like a school project anyway so I guess that's good enough.

The only crowd worse than the 'penetrating oil' crowd is the 'spark plug' crowd....people who fervently believe that most (penetrating oils / spark plugs) suck but there is the one magic (penetrating oil / spark plug) that will unleash its fury unto the (frozen bolt / combustion chamber) and lead one to glory. But at least with the spark plug crowd you don't people making their own out in the garage for pennies on the dollar.

Actually, I guess the motor oil crowd is pretty bad, too.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure motor oil has sparked fights that started on forums lol... especially the amsoil crowd, they are something else. :)
 
Well, Amsoil is a special oil. It will make an engine last a million miles and it also cures heart disease and is used by every NASCAR team and the space shuttle.
 
I like Kroil, just wish they would market it to the world, having to order it sucks.

I did some testing on the ATF/acetone mix, they will not stay mixed in a bottle, and when applied the acetone evaporates off too quickly leaving just ATF. I think it is one of those internet rumors that is out of hand. ATF and mineral spirits will stay mixed, and it does work as a penetrant, not sure its any better than any of the others.
 
Not sure what the real purpose of your test is, but to generate the most useful data you should have something that graphs torque vs angular displacement. Atlas Copco makes such devices but the ones we use at work are not cheap. To simply record peak torque, there are a myriad of methods and tools. You could simply video record a beam type wrench to get an idea of the peak. Your data is only going to be as good as your worst measuring device.
 
AdamPrince2 said:
I purchased 100 3/8" grade 5 bolts with nuts and washers of a known material. I'm going to torque them all to the same torque after ultrasonic cleaning. Then expose them to HCL acid to corrode them in a controlled way for a set time. Finally, I'll apply different penetrating oils to a sample set of 10 with a set of 10 controls and breaking them loose with a torque wrench after a set time.
Click to expand...

IMO (chemist's) you're going about this backwards. The experimental design here has too many variables- the errosion via HCl being one of them. You've heard of hydrogen embrittlement in steels, yes? What you're ultimately measuring is the ability for the various oils to creep between surfaces that are in close contact. Capillary action plays a role, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the better oil manufacturers have capitalised on electrostatic forces, metallic complex bonding etc.

My $0.02 CAD.
 
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