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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratfink View Post
    Good evening all,

    I am hoping this isnt to foolish​ of a question? Here is my dilemma​.

    • Dont have time running around looking for fasteners, nuts and bolts.
    • Fasteners are getting cost prohibitive​.
    • Not enough space for a full rack of fasteners in sae and metric sizes.


    Is there any way to convert an older screw machine? And make your own nuts and bolts?

    diy small manual former?

    Thoughts?

    With all the cnc conversions ect.... Has anyone approached this idea or can point me in the right direction?

    Thanks
    I do it all the time.I have a BUSY BEE NO 1 BOLTMAKER in my garage.Last wed. I lost a license plate bolt. It was a hard to find 1/4-20 by 1 inch.By Saturday morning ,I had made a replacemet.The best part ,is, by sat eve ,I had 4000 more. Good Luck .Edwin Dirnbeck

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  3. #82
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    Well its been a while since I posted this and I have not responded due to deciding whst and how I should say it... Especially since all the overwhelming support and how on topic everyone stays.

    In hopes of not being to direct or to disrespectful. I didnt ask for a cost breakdown from others. I asked for a solution if a screw machine can be used to make nuts and bolts. I stated that its cost prohibited for me.... So that in itself should make you ask what type of bolts and nuts do I need.... Not that it matters.... I asked about if a screw machine can make bolts.

    Next... The guys that are saying theyvare buying bolts by the pound at 1.50 or even 3.00? Are flat out liars.... Show me the reciepts and give me the name of the store or business.

    Next... I need 190,000 tensile strength... Made from chrome moly 4130, titainium, etc.... Tell me you can purchase ARP BILTS by the pound?

    Next.... Have any of you had to scrape part of your wife and or child off the street due to Chinese F##ing Counterfiet Bolts/lugnuts/fasteners that caused a deadly car accident due to bolt failure and lost your entire family because of F##ing cheap Sh#t Amazon and Google searching for some aholes overseas creating and selling this sh#t?

    Because I dont live in the world of the Snowflake lazy Millidiot world... I actually know what hard work is and how much human beings suk and should be nuked off the planet. Companies like Amazon, google have destroyed every decent hardware store that you could rely upon for REAL grade 8 bolts or grade 5.

    So yeah... Its taking me over a year to respond... Because hopefully I think to myself hmm maybe just maybe someone will just answer the Main point of my question instead of giving me a lecture on how much a counterfiet f##ing bolt from china that killed my family cost.... Which if im machining, building race cars, and need special bolts.... You would common sensely know this guy(me) knows how much a bolt cost!

    Lastly... I picked up 2 Brown and Sharpe machines for 500 bucks complete with tons of tooling.... I have spent 1k in grade 8 fasteners and still not come close to what I need. If I have bar stock and setup time for each machine... Say for a 4130 1/4 x 20 bolt 2" long is an hour? Then I turn it on and let it rip and go do other work while its making bolts.... HOW IS THIS NOT COST OR TIME EFFECTIVE?

    Forums are about helping others with thier pointed or main pointed questions.... Its not about YOU OR I OR WHAT WE THINK. If you cant answer or want to answer then dont respond....

    I hope you can understand my sensitivity to this matter... If I have offended anyone please accept my sincerest appologies, and for asking a seemingly impossible question and existing....




    Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk

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  5. #83
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    I suggest you pick up a copy of Race Car Engineering or Race Tech, check out the ads and follow the links. Another suggestion is to call ARP and ask for a quote on what you need.

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    Just wait for Boeing to go under and go to the auction

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    Quote;

    Default Diy Bolt and Nut Making

    Good evening all,

    I am hoping this isnt to foolish​ of a question? Here is my dilemma​.

    Dont have time running around looking for fasteners, nuts and bolts.
    Fasteners are getting cost prohibitive​.
    Not enough space for a full rack of fasteners in sae and metric sizes.



    Is there any way to convert an older screw machine? And make your own nuts and bolts?

    diy small manual former?

    Thoughts?

    With all the cnc conversions ect.... Has anyone approached this idea or can point me in the right direction?

    Thanks



    I read all you posted in the above post. Now in your last post you give some specifics.


    quote;

    In hopes of not being to direct or to disrespectful. I didnt ask for a cost breakdown from others. I asked for a solution if a screw machine can be used to make nuts and bolts. I stated that its cost prohibited for me.... So that in itself should make you ask what type of bolts and nuts do I need.... Not that it matters.... I asked about if a screw machine can make bolts.


    Everbody, including you, knows that screw machines make screws.

    Quote;


    Next... The guys that are saying theyvare buying bolts by the pound at 1.50 or even 3.00? Are flat out liars.... Show me the reciepts and give me the name of the store or business.

    It is more the exception than the rule but true.


    Quote;

    Next... I need 190,000 tensile strength... Made from chrome moly 4130, titainium, etc.... Tell me you can purchase ARP BILTS by the pound?


    Now we get into the part where it gets technical. You want cheap and fast and 190K PSI ? It ain't gonna happen. You best have thread rollers for the threads and be able to heat treat your own parts. There is a reason ARP fasteners cost what they do and they are cheap for what you get. I know because that is what I do also on a short run basis.

    Quote;

    Next.... Have any of you had to scrape part of your wife and or child off the street due to Chinese F##ing Counterfiet Bolts/lugnuts/fasteners that caused a deadly car accident due to bolt failure and lost your entire family because of F##ing cheap Sh#t Amazon and Google searching for some aholes overseas creating and selling this sh#t?


    That is why you get and pay for the good stuff.

    Quote;

    Lastly... I picked up 2 Brown and Sharpe machines for 500 bucks complete with tons of tooling.... I have spent 1k in grade 8 fasteners and still not come close to what I need. If I have bar stock and setup time for each machine... Say for a 4130 1/4 x 20 bolt 2" long is an hour? Then I turn it on and let it rip and go do other work while its making bolts.... HOW IS THIS NOT COST OR TIME EFFECTIVE?



    You bought a couple screw machines tooled up. Does the tooling include a thread rolling setup? Cut threads are weaker, why else would ARP roll them.
    1/4-20 from 4130? Grade 2 unless you HT. 190K PSI not gonna happen.

    You were guided to several outlets for quality fasteners. I would make a few on your new setup, buy some equivalent size and grade, make a little test fixture and use a torque wrench to deliberately break a few and compare. That is specifically what I do to check my products. Use a good torque recording wrench.

    If you get past that then Go Gettum Buckshot!!!

    Ed.

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    "Quote Next... I need 190,000 tensile strength... Made from chrome moly 4130, titainium, etc.... Tell me you can purchase ARP BILTS by the pound?

    Lastly... I picked up 2 Brown and Sharpe machines for 500 bucks complete with tons of tooling.... I have spent 1k in grade 8 fasteners and still not come close to what I need. If I have bar stock and setup time for each machine... Say for a 4130 1/4 x 20 bolt 2" long is an hour? Then I turn it on and let it rip and go do other work while its making bolts.... HOW IS THIS NOT COST OR TIME EFFECTIVE? Quote"

    You can set up a screw machine in an hour!! You are better man than me. I would have a hard time with that if I already had layout instructions and all the tooling on the shelf.
    How much material are you going to have to stock when you may need titanium hex in this size and 4130 hex in another. You ever had to stand and watch a screw machine while pulling chips off it? Have fun with that 4130 and titanium.

    Good machining steel is getting hard to get in small quantities. I just said no to a buy that I was intending to make because they were going to charge me $500.00 to recertify 10 bars of 3/8 stainless.
    You mentioned counterfeit screws how about bad imported material with inclusions that tear up your tools and leave voids in the finished part. I am running some shear pins right now on a screw machine that the customer originally asked for in 1018. I will not run that junk any more. I have broken tool holders and even had the spindle stop when the inclusions were hit.

    And what Atex57 said about rolled threads and heat treating. Good grief, Charlie Brown, you are going to have a lot of it.

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    About half of our (general) shop jobs are predictable cases. IE, We want to build 10 what-zits and we know exactly what it will take to do so. But the other half is custom work, repairs, R&D, etc. All stuff that we can't 100% predict. So we end up with a LOT of generic inventory. A few of the isles in our parts dept are nothing but fasteners, electrical components, motor drive components, hardware store stuff, etc. There's a lot of it we can't really associate with a specific job or product, and yet it gets used. We inherited a lot when we bought the company, but a lot has just been built up piece by piece over time. We buy stuff daily through McMaster Carr, Amazon, Ebay, and the other usual vendors. McMaster in particular we often get overnight. So when we don't have something, we can often get it quickly.

    I bring this up because this is a side of business most don't consider. People think "I need X, Y, and Z to do the job, so that's ALL I need." When in reality, what's predicted on the white board isn't always what happens on the shop floor. Having a well stocked inventory beyond what you can predict can often be what separates the shops that can do ANYTHING, from the ones that need a little extra time, or a little more on the quote, or just don't do the job. The extreme of this however is 'dead' inventory. Things that NEVER get used. And the line between these is something that only you can answer with your business's experience.

    Now that's just talking about what you can buy. If you needed one more 1/4-20 hex nut to finish a rush job and your only option was to wait for an overnight box from McMaster, and you had a stick of hex stock and an old tool room lathe, then sure, make it! But if you have the time, you can't compete with the automation that's churning those things out. Where having a machine shop on site really pays is when you need just one thing made that no one else can do and you can't or don't want to wait a couple weeks for a job shop to do it.

    Buy what you can and make what you can't.

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    You still need to forge the heads first.

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    This is a shake your head and walk away thread. Cut, rolled, cast, whatever.

    Just walk away...

    [Just checked, and I still have my "face palm" tag that I mentioned in post #8]

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    Quote Originally Posted by M.B. Naegle View Post
    About half of our (general) shop jobs are predictable cases. IE, We want to build 10 what-zits and we know exactly what it will take to do so. But the other half is custom work, repairs, R&D, etc. All stuff that we can't 100% predict. So we end up with a LOT of generic inventory. A few of the isles in our parts dept are nothing but fasteners, electrical components, motor drive components, hardware store stuff, etc. There's a lot of it we can't really associate with a specific job or product, and yet it gets used. We inherited a lot when we bought the company, but a lot has just been built up piece by piece over time. We buy stuff daily through McMaster Carr, Amazon, Ebay, and the other usual vendors. McMaster in particular we often get overnight. So when we don't have something, we can often get it quickly.

    I bring this up because this is a side of business most don't consider. People think "I need X, Y, and Z to do the job, so that's ALL I need." When in reality, what's predicted on the white board isn't always what happens on the shop floor. Having a well stocked inventory beyond what you can predict can often be what separates the shops that can do ANYTHING, from the ones that need a little extra time, or a little more on the quote, or just don't do the job. The extreme of this however is 'dead' inventory. Things that NEVER get used. And the line between these is something that only you can answer with your business's experience.

    Now that's just talking about what you can buy. If you needed one more 1/4-20 hex nut to finish a rush job and your only option was to wait for an overnight box from McMaster, and you had a stick of hex stock and an old tool room lathe, then sure, make it! But if you have the time, you can't compete with the automation that's churning those things out. Where having a machine shop on site really pays is when you need just one thing made that no one else can do and you can't or don't want to wait a couple weeks for a job shop to do it.

    Buy what you can and make what you can't.
    I'm not sure where I am going with this, or where it will end up, but here goes...

    A lifetime ago when I was building dies and machines, about the 2nd or 3rd thing I did, on a new job, was do a check for hardware- stripper bolts, springs, dowels, shcs/fhcs, etc. For die springs, we typically ordered what was needed, no 'real' need to stock extra IMO since they could vary so wildly. For bolts and dowels, I would see what we had, then order boxes (usually in qty of 50 IIRC) for what we need, plus a 'few' extra in order to build/keep stock on hand, unless they were very large (3/4"+ in this story), because those got expensive.

    I guess my point relating back the the OP, is why would you ever make your own nuts and bolts??*

    * Very large, or very special (excess thread length, weird/odd head, etc) I could maybe see....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post

    I guess my point relating back the the OP, is why would you ever make your own nuts and bolts??*
    For all his talk about making "high quality, 190Ksi strength" fasteners, he's said not a word on hydrogen embrittlement, which is a significant problem with very high strength bolts and the like. It takes special alloys and treatment to control this, not the sort of thing a casual would be able to handle.

    Hydrogen Embrittlement - NACE

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    I would think that if you need fasteners with the requirements as stated that you would need certs from an independent lab. I don't think your screw machine or even a cnc lathe would be of much value.

    Tom

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    If he is using thread cutting dies in 4130 he will be shocked how often they need sharpening then replacement. Hard to imagine how long they will last in titanium. I worked for a fellow that did the window spacers for the 747 or one of those planes. All kinds of tricks necessary to run titanium on a screw machine.

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    Just buy a DMLS metal printer; should only cost about half to 3/4 of a million. They claim 190KSI in 17-4:
    https://www.protolabs.com/media/7062...p-us-final.pdf

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    Thermite is bored again so he brings up a necrothread he started in the first place?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbent View Post
    Thermite is bored again so he brings up a necrothread he started in the first place?
    ???

    This doesn't have the feel of a Bill thread, why do you think it's him?

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    ...no its not a Bill thread...
    I get it... You all think its a f##ked up idea... I hear you all very loud and clear. It doesnt make any sense to anyone... Its insane.. Why would anyone want to do this... Bla bla bla... I get it... You all dont like it.... Great ok.. That is established...

    Maybe we should treat this as a theorotical question.... Can it be done? Not..should it be done. Where im at thus far is...

    Is it possible to convert screw machines to a small/multi turrett cnc lathe/machine? I can answer yes to this question because I have completed the conversion on both machines I have.

    Is it possible to make a bolt using hex stock on a screw machine? Yes to that as well... Ive been testing out the CNC conversion doing as much.

    I have canbalized a old National nut and head former machines so I can form heads on bolts and make nuts.

    I have two heat treat ovens.

    For reasons of my own.... Dumb azz... Stupidity, idiotic, wrong, sissy la la, crazy, (whatever you think here in these quotes) I have a need to produce small quantities of standard bolts and nuts on demand. Because of this I am/ have created()ing a small fully automated on demand bolt and nut manufacturing that takes up a very small footprint of building space. My employees are industrial robots 2 so far... And my completely ah#le idea/pipe dream/lab test/proof of concept seems to work well for my needs. Im attemtping to figure out how to change/adjust/ build tooling for different sizes on the same equipment instead of having multiple machines or few machines as possible.

    Since this idea/question seems to have offended many asking if a Screw Machine can be setup to make/thread a bolt and not getting a simple yes or no I proceeded forward with info I had on hand and built/modified what I needed/wanted for lack of better words OR to make it more palletable for the people who appear to think otherwise...(proof of concept)..

    Again... My f*&#ing sincerest appologies for asking a seemingly insulting, stupid, dumbazz, insane, question If a screw machine can thread/make a bolt... I now realize that in this day and age that human kind will come to its end very soon... Thankfully... I am so looking forward to it.

    Lastly i appreciate the fact the moderators obviously dont monitor off topic replies or individuals hijacking threads for thier own personal opinions on what is valid or not..who is stupid/insane or not? Who blows who or not? Its good to know I can call people stupid aholes or ??? And thier ideas stupid because im a legend in my own mind and what I think is the only thing that matters? Ill remember the next time I respond on someone elese post...make sure they know how important my thoughts thoughts are instead of being helpful....

    I promise I will continue to ask/post stupid questions as much as I can so I can apparently piss the world off without knowing...

    The ones that actually provided help and guidance... Thankyou for your input as your info was helpful.

    Best wishes, health and long lives to all




    Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk

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    Well, for amusement and to totally show all those jerks on PM what a'holes they are for doubting you, why don't you give us a summary of what time, materials, and cost (basic machines, modifications, electricity, budget for wear and replacements, etc.) you've got into your commodity fastener operation? Then tell us how many 190Ksi screws and nuts you've made, and what the unit price is.

    It's OK, they laughed at Elon Musk too. If you've created the desktop printer of the fastener world, then patent it and buy that Bugatti you've always dreamed of.

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    Did I reply and write proof of concept? Or did I leave it out?

    Did I say Im in full production mode?

    Did I say anything about what anything should cost...or have cost me?

    You guys are so set in fu##ing an idea you dont like you have to find a way to continually bash it..

    The OP... Me simple wanted and to my F#%#king question... Can a screw machine make and thread a bolt?

    Im not intetested in your opinions on cost.. Or waiting a week for a f#!#ing bolt or nut... I asked a simple dumb ass question... Again...if you dont want to help then dont....

    The on topic response is can a screw machine make or thread a bolt?

    If we again move or add to the theoritical just for sake of answering the question... Lets say I have money to burn and throw away... Lets say i want to have a non profit religious bolt making company.... Can a screw machine thread or make a bolt? Again... Great.. Its a sh#t idea... You dont like it...you want to burn it down with me in it... Great.. I dont #!!$!... The question hasnt been answered just my idea poo pooed...

    How the hell long and expense do you think this should take??? A long ass time... Its not a simple endeavour... And im sure you dont own your own business or you wouldnt ask questions like that... Do you honestly think im going to provide anyone with business financials to prove to you how stupid all of you think this is??? I already know how you think. I asked a question and was burned for it.. To which one maybe two provided a reasonable answer.... Again I am thankful for thier efforts... It did save me some time and expense.

    I didnt asked for your thoughts about its cheaper to order a pile of bolts from home depot or mcmasters... I didnt ask what you thought of my idea or if you thought it was stupid... I asked if a screw machine could make/thread a bolt...

    I havent shared with you my extended reasons for asking this... I shouldnt have to... Its no ones business... If you all wish to think its a sh#t idea... Fine.. Then dont respond.

    If you dont wish to answer a question or theoritical question then dont... But if you do answer dont flame people for it because you dissagree or dont like it.

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    If anyone requires a valid reason why this is a "stupid, dumb, insane" idea so you can justify your non answers.... Here is your reason....YouTube


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