DoAll 1612-3 band wheel tires. No tires, was mine equipped originally?
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  1. #1
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    Default DoAll 1612-3 band wheel tires. No tires, was mine equipped originally?

    I just picked up a used DoAll 1612-3 vertical band saw. The band tracks well without tires and the previous owner says it is a tireless machine due to it being metal specific.

    The wheels have ridges on the running surface and a flange on the inboard side, There are stainless steel keepers on the outboard side. The band runs fairly centered in the table slot but noticeably to the left looking at the business end of the blade, I think a 0.125"thick tire may push it too close to the opposite side (I can't check as I have the transmission out at the moment.

    Can anyone tell me if these machines were meant to run without tires?

    Thanks.

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    It sounds like the wheels are meant to be tireless, as a respectable saw should be. The teeth should ride off the wheel by at least one tooth gullet length, the blade should not touch the flange. Hyd Mech saws run 3 gullets, HeM suggest 2 gullets. There is variation and playing around, but you find when the top guide has neutral pressure (blade kissing the guide)on the back of blade things are about right.
    Make sure you tension the blade properly and spend some time with setting the tracking bottom + top wheels and both guides. Tension is likely way more than you are used to seeing if you come from a rubber wheel saw - a lot more.

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    Im not a DoAll expert, but I think every model I know of had tires.

    have got to hand it to that guy for coming up with that! especially if he concocted that swill on the fly, very impressive. the only exception I can think of would be a "thermal cut" toothless friction cut dedicated machine. could be..

    if you need tires, look up sulfur springs machine in FL. think thats the name..

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    Great, I am new to bandsaws altogether but have wanted a DoAll for years. This one is in great shape mechanically. I will get some pictures posted tomorrow of the wheels. The wheels contact area has 4 raised ridges around the contact area. It would make sense that these accommodate the teeth/gulets of various blade sizes.

    Thanks for the help.

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    I saw a Taiwanese made vertical bandsaw intended for metal cutting with no rubber on the rim at an auction, ex Royal Australian navy. I phoned someone who knows a bit about such things, he said yes they do exist like that with the wheels having small rims on the side of the wheels to prevent the blade running off when badly tracking.

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    I think it is Sulfur Grove Tool https://sgtool.com/

    Thanks for reminding me that I need a set

  7. Likes cyanidekid liked this post
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    Just ordered a set for my Do-All 26" .. 89.95, no tax and free shipping.... Will update this thread with how they work

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    On a bandsaw with tires you can use saws of different width The teeth ride on the softer material from the tires and don`t get smashed therefore
    The tires wear out though
    Bandsaws with no tires are meant to use only a single width of saws

    Peter

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    I think you were fed bullshit.

    I don't recall if my 1612-3 had grooves on the wheels, under the rubber tires, but if it did, they were there for other reasons. Or, the grooves you have are there due to running without rubber tires.

    I'd put rubber tires on it (not urethane) and run for the next 30 years. The better question is "why NOT have tires?" It's not like there is any benefit in running without them.

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    Why not contact Doall and see what they have to say about the bandsaw?. I see in the parts manual for that model on page 31 in the top left hand corner they show a cross sectional drawing for a "Taper wheel" and a second optional wheel called a "Crown wheel". The tapered wheel shows what looks like a wheel with steps on the circumference and a fence on one side of the wheel. A similar wheel is shown on the assembly drawing too.

    Parts and Product Manuals DoALL Sawing
    Last edited by SAG 180; 03-25-2020 at 05:38 PM.

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    I just looked at my 1939 vintage V-16 and it has tires on a crowned wheel. I also have a small woodworking bandsaw that has been converted to slow speed to cut metal. The thing about that saw is the hot metal chips fall on to the lower wheel tire and melt themselves into the rubber. The DoAll tires don't seem to have that problem. Maybe a tougher compound? I seem to remember some bandsaws have small brushes that sweep the tire before the blade contacts the wheel, but I can't remember where I saw that.
    Back to the OPs question, my DoAll has tires.

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    $36 each McMaster-Carr

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    My Do-All has tires. It did not have them when I first got it (used) so I assumed it didn't need them. I found that after a while the blade wouldn't cut straight and tended to wander regardless of the tension and tracking adjustment. When I took a close look I could see where the set of the teeth were worn more where the blade contacted the wheel and was causing the wander problem. Been using it with tires for the last twenty years with no further problems.

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    Here are the wheels in question. One area of the drive wheel has some pretty serious wear which I find strange. You can see the taper that has developed on the outer edge of the wheel.

    Is there a risk in cleaning these up? My little Clausing doesn't have the swing to turn these 16" wheels so I would need to find a shop that would do this type of work.

    If I take material off and reduce their OD, how will urethane wheels fit afterwards? I know their undersized for a stretch fit but I wonder to what degree?


    20200326_181246_resize_67.jpg
    20200326_181309_resize_45.jpg20200326_181316_resize_49.jpg20200326_181457_resize_86-copy.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clausing4900 View Post
    Here are the wheels in question. One area of the drive wheel has some pretty serious wear which I find strange. You can see the taper that has developed on the outer edge of the wheel.

    Is there a risk in cleaning these up? My little Clausing doesn't have the swing to turn these 16" wheels so I would need to find a shop that would do this type of work.

    If I take material off and reduce their OD, how will urethane wheels fit afterwards? I know their undersized for a stretch fit but I wonder to what degree?


    20200326_181246_resize_67.jpg
    20200326_181309_resize_45.jpg20200326_181316_resize_49.jpg20200326_181457_resize_86-copy.jpg
    Just where in Texas are you? It's a pretty big place

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clausing4900 View Post
    Here are the wheels in question. One area of the drive wheel has some pretty serious wear which I find strange. You can see the taper that has developed on the outer edge of the wheel.

    Is there a risk in cleaning these up? My little Clausing doesn't have the swing to turn these 16" wheels so I would need to find a shop that would do this type of work.

    If I take material off and reduce their OD, how will urethane wheels fit afterwards? I know their undersized for a stretch fit but I wonder to what degree?


    20200326_181246_resize_67.jpg
    20200326_181309_resize_45.jpg20200326_181316_resize_49.jpg20200326_181457_resize_86-copy.jpg
    The Doall parts manual for the 1612-3 model bandsaw says that it has a tapered wheel and your wheel is tapered......the 1613-2 has the crown wheel with tyre.
    Maybe you should contact Doall and ask them about it.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails doall-1612-3.jpg  

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    My 16" DoAll has tires, I opine that yours should have tires too. I know some do not like urethane tires but I put a set on my saw quite a few years ago and have had no issues whatsoever. In fairness, the old rubber tires lasted a very long time so whatever you install is better than what you have now. In any event, as some have already mentioned, I have never seen a vertical DoAll bandsaw without tires.

    Good luck.

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    Nice work sag180! Thanks for posting, you will note it lists a “tire & rim assy.” For the tapered wheel also, but I think it will differ from a normal tire to fit the crowned wheel. I’m sure someone here knows what that wheel is for, but suffice to say it’s pretty rare I think.

    If the smallest dia of the tapered wheel is about the same dia as the crowned, you could have them both turned to the conventional crowned wheel. Might want to give Sulphur Grove the actual dims. in that case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyanidekid View Post
    Nice work sag180! Thanks for posting, you will note it lists a “tire & rim assy.” For the tapered wheel also, but I think it will differ from a normal tire to fit the crowned wheel. I’m sure someone here knows what that wheel is for, but suffice to say it’s pretty rare I think.

    If the smallest dia of the tapered wheel is about the same dia as the crowned, you could have them both turned to the conventional crowned wheel. Might want to give Sulphur Grove the actual dims. in that case.
    An email to Doall would be a good first step before modifying the machine from one model into another. As far as function goes the blade is always going to ride up the taper until the back of the blade hits that fence on the rim, with the other wheels those grooves could match up with where the teeth are for various blade widths. Anyway only Doall knows for sure.

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    Thanks for the suggestions and help here. I did call DoAll initially. They said yhat it needed tires and gave me the part number and the price (over $400 each!) I knew their prices were high but wow... Rubber bands. I know there are cheaper replacement tire alternatives.

    Now that I have some pictures, I may shoot an email off to DoAll to confirm whether or not these get tires or not. Like I mentioned in my first post, the blade is just left of centered now within the table slot, I'm afraid 0.125" thick tires will push it too far from center. I am also concerned about the heavy wear on that section of the drive wheel.

    SAG, I have downloaded the parts manual and looked at the wheel cross section as well. Is there a better version out THERE? it's pretty hard to make out the details with the copy I have from DoAll.

    I live in Central Texas, Highland Lkes area by the way.


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