Does Europe have a McMasterCarr equivalent where do Germans shop for supplies?
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  1. #1
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    Default Does Europe have a McMasterCarr equivalent where do Germans shop for supplies?

    I am working on a custom machine for the European market. Occasionally there is a need for a European part that they don't seem to sell over here. Right now the big one is IEC motor pump adapters. If I want a NEMA C-Face it's about $40 from McMaster. If I have to go from an ATEX IEC style motor to my hydraulic pump sure I can spend $450 for BSF to custom make something for me but I have to wonder where do the Germans shop? Is there a website I can access online and buy some local type parts for this machine that the Germans are requiring?

    By the way most of what I am looking for are hydraulic supplies and machine parts, as opposed to purely machining related.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adammil1 View Post
    I am working on a custom machine for the European market. Occasionally there is a need for a European part that they don't seem to sell over here. Right now the big one is IEC motor pump adapters. If I want a NEMA C-Face it's about $40 from McMaster. If I have to go from an ATEX IEC style motor to my hydraulic pump sure I can spend $450 for BSF to custom make something for me but I have to wonder where do the Germans shop? Is there a website I can access online and buy some local type parts for this machine that the Germans are requiring?

    By the way most of what I am looking for are hydraulic supplies and machine parts, as opposed to purely machining related.
    No idea on suppliers but why are you going from ATEX to NEMA instead of just getting a full ATEX motor and pump assembly? Atex is hazardous area rules and is quite strict on what components can be used, bolting a NEMA motor to it likely wouldn't meet the standard (hence maybe why you are having trouble finding an adaptor)

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanP_85 View Post
    No idea on suppliers but why are you going from ATEX to NEMA instead of just getting a full ATEX motor and pump assembly? Atex is hazardous area rules and is quite strict on what components can be used, bolting a NEMA motor to it likely wouldn't meet the standard (hence maybe why you are having trouble finding an adaptor)
    Sorry for the confusion. Historically for a US application I use a NEMA motor and a gear pump. At this point I know my gear pump (changing to 50Hz won't make much of a difference here),I now have a Siemens ATEX rated IEC motor so now I am trying to translate the coupling assembly.

    I have checked with all US suppliers and this is a custom made to order part given limited use of IEC motors in this country. I am wondering if there is a standard thing over in Germany.

    I wonder why the Europeans felt the need to create new motor standards?

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    Unfortunately, no. There is nothing in Germany that comes even close to McMaster Carr. I wish there were. Finding industrial parts and supplies in Europe is a nightmare. However stick to your Nema motor if it is a 460V 3phase 60 Hz motor. They work perfectly on 400V, 50 Hz.

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    Would misumi not be comparable. They have a distribution place in Germany

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    Quote Originally Posted by plutoniumsalmon View Post
    Would misumi not be comparable. They have a distribution place in Germany
    You would think, but that's not how it works. Yes, there are local distributors for International firms, but they have a very limited warehouse. Almost everything is special order. They then order from the parent company and charge the relevant commissions and local taxes. They add no value, you might as well order yourself from the parent company, even if it is in Japan. You get better service, faster shipping and lower prices. Sad, but true. Germany is a third world country when it comes to industrial supply. Add to that issue, is the technical language. It has no relationship to the spoken German....none. Technical German is owned by the folks in that particular trade and is not public knowledge. Trust me, you have no idea how good you guys have it in the states.

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    Might be worth looking into UK based suppliers.

    Couplings for IEC size motors seem to be fairly readily available here at not too silly prices. Whether of the right size and type I know not.

    Your Google-Fu will need to be fully charged to sort the search results though.

    Clive

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    Quote Originally Posted by adammil1 View Post
    I wonder why the Europeans felt the need to create new motor standards?
    I wonder why the US uses a standard that is different from the entire rest of the world...

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    Tis only a suggestion ;- For suppliers look in to RS Components RS Components | Industrial, electronic products & solutions

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    Tis only a suggestion ;- For suppliers look in to RS Components RS Components | Industrial, electronic products & solutions
    I have often used suppliers in the UK including RS, but RS in Germany is terrible. They don't answer your emails, the service is terrible and they stock very little.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    You would think, but that's not how it works. Yes, there are local distributors for International firms, but they have a very limited warehouse. Almost everything is special order. They then order from the parent company and charge the relevant commissions and local taxes. They add no value, you might as well order yourself from the parent company, even if it is in Japan. You get better service, faster shipping and lower prices. Sad, but true. Germany is a third world country when it comes to industrial supply. Add to that issue, is the technical language. It has no relationship to the spoken German....none. Technical German is owned by the folks in that particular trade and is not public knowledge. Trust me, you have no idea how good you guys have it in the states.
    Good to know the grass on the other side of the fence isn't greener. Canadian distributors were historically quite often asleep at the switch for smaller customers which is always the case when you're doing R&D and ordering random things in small quantities, so McMaster was a revelation when we started using it around 2001. I do enjoy going through giant hardcover German catalogs from companies like Schunk and Festo and trying to make heads or tails of how to assemble a part number. Then you call the rep and they're like, "oh no that's wrong it's like this". (though to be fair to the Germans I have had to get lessons from the reps on how to use the websites of Sandvik and Iscar.) It's fascinating what you say about German being trade specific. Back around 2003 I had an important 1899 paper by physicist Friedrich Kohlrausch translated by German/Canadian physics professor Boye Ahlborn, who was by then retired so probably born in the 30's in Germany. Ahlborn said he found the paper really quite difficult to understand, which I found amazing, though we were able to puzzle it out. 19th century technical English is straightforward in comparison.

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    On the language being trade specific that's another area where McMaster shines so well. First off nothing like shopping by pictures a guy doesn't need to speak English to search their catalog you can find almost anything you're looking for just by pictures. Then when you get to items they tell you all about them including trade names etc... In some ways McMaster is somewhat like an American industrial dictionary in its own right.

    I wonder why McMaster or even an MSC hasn't ever tried to setup shop in Europe. How do you guys buy your supplies over there? Are you like the Asians where you go to special shopping malls in a certain part of the city to shop? It's not like the Germans don't have a solid industrial base over there.

    One resource we use heavily that's very good is the Siemens industrial mall but that's only everything Siemens.

    Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    I wonder why the US uses a standard that is different from the entire rest of the world...
    Maybe you can help then I am at home now but I think it was either a IEC size 71 or 73 from memory 1/2 hp motor to SAE A pump.

    Seems to me at 1/2hp if IEC was so popular that this should be about the equivalent of a 56C motor that everyone would be making adapters for. However I couldn't find anything but custom made at $400+ vs the $40 my sales team budgeted for the standard NEMA 56 to pump adapter. Seems if the whole world but the USA used the standard going from a measly little 1/2 motor to gear pump would be easy? What do the Chinese use? NEMA, IEC or something else?

    Is IEC really as popular in the rest of the world as NEMA and we dont have access to those parts here in the USA or is NEMA the predominant motor of all but a handful of European areas and the ATEX world?

    Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    I wonder why the US uses a standard that is different from the entire rest of the world...
    The better question is why every one didn’t match US standards you know the single largest market

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    Quote Originally Posted by 72bwhite View Post
    The better question is why every one didn’t match US standards you know the single largest market
    Uhh, not any more

    and Europe was metric before, well, we had a standard

    On topic, England is what I am familiar with and they never seemed to have a wholesale/retail market like we do here. Perhaps the smaller geographic areas, or whatever, but the business world works differently from what we here consider normal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    I wonder why the US uses a standard that is different from the entire rest of the world...
    because it works for us

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1yesca View Post
    because it works for us
    Until you want to export stuff, that is. Then it doesn't.

    FWIW the last motor I bought was a frame 71 1/2HP 3 phase face mount made in Brazil. It was a dead nuts swap for a European motor that had let the magic smoke out. NFI what 'standard' it matched, just that it fitted off the shelf.

    PDW

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    Try Home | norelem

    Their prices aren't great, but they have things.

    I live in Portugal.

    I used to buy a lot of my mechanical tech goods from the UK, because they have good internet shops with good prices.
    But after Brexit, the UK is a foreign country; now I can't get anything from there without large expense and difficulty.

    Germany, France, and the Netherlands have reasonable webshops, but they rarely ship outside their borders for reasonable cost. Europe is not one country.

    So lately I've been working to find local suppliers.

    I don't speak Portuguese, or German, French or Dutch. Well, I speak a little Dutch. Anyway, the trick is to find the right search word and then take your time. I also ask around, in vivo or internet machinist friends who live in the country.

    I recently found 2 suppliers for gears and racks; one has good prices for the gears but the rack is overpriced, the other is the opposite. But their prices are reasonable compared to the UK shops, and postage is cheap which is a big factor for small orders. They sell bearings, seals, and belts too (of course).

    But they don't have online price or stock lists. I have to write a mail, they reply with a price, I mail again, blah blah.

    Everyone uses computers here just like everywhere else, but online shopping culture is undeveloped.

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    I’m told Farnell components isn’t too bad, I’ve bought industrial off them in the U.K., bit cheaper than RS, ( the catalogue they sent me was 5 volumes, crazy range of stuff)
    CPC is another
    Mark

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    Seems like the answer is obvious. From the posts above this, they are obviously making a ton more money doing it their way.



    Quote Originally Posted by 72bwhite View Post
    The better question is why every one didn’t match US standards you know the single largest market


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