Does Europe have a McMasterCarr equivalent where do Germans shop for supplies? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Duhh, perhaps because we don't want to pay those sky high European prices?



    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    I wonder why the US uses a standard that is different from the entire rest of the world...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 72bwhite View Post
    The better question is why every one didnít match US standards you know the single largest market
    And yet today I would think China is the largest market. I wonder whose standards they've copied? There's also Japan and Korea who I have to think are also big players. I wonder what they're all doing.

    From coworkers who've gone over there, there's no real catalog like McMaster but rather shopping malls of all things industrial.

    A coworker was working in China when they needed a new potentiometer. They took him to the store that specialized in resistors capacitors and potentiometers he said it was pretty wild how the whole market was laid out it was almost like walking thru sections of a large catalog as the market grouped stores by category. Hard to see that business model surviving long in the day of Ecommerce and rising wages who has time to run out and in person buy every nut, bolt, screw, fitting etc....

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    Mark,
    I have had similar experiences, but the brexit disruption is smoothing out a bit with the UK and I am still getting good prices on some things. Shipping is getting better, but it still has a way to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    I wonder why the US uses a standard that is different from the entire rest of the world...
    Hey- we still use british pipe threads, just like they do everywhere. Be glad the empire still exists a bit in some realms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adammil1 View Post
    On the language being trade specific that's another area where McMaster shines so well. First off nothing like shopping by pictures a guy doesn't need to speak English to search their catalog you can find almost anything you're looking for just by pictures. Then when you get to items they tell you all about them including trade names etc... In some ways McMaster is somewhat like an American industrial dictionary in its own right.

    I wonder why McMaster or even an MSC hasn't ever tried to setup shop in Europe. How do you guys buy your supplies over there? Are you like the Asians where you go to special shopping malls in a certain part of the city to shop? It's not like the Germans don't have a solid industrial base over there.
    I also wondered why some German or British company did not set up their own store modeled on McMaster-Carr, and clean up.

    Given that nobody has done this, basically forever, I'd venture that there is some kind of legal or regulatory problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    Mark,
    I have had similar experiences, but the brexit disruption is smoothing out a bit with the UK and I am still getting good prices on some things. Shipping is getting better, but it still has a way to go.
    Not so here in Portugal; I used to use a specialist trucking company who had a side business forwarding parcels. They did well, the brits who live here would order from UK stores or ebay and use the company depot as a mail address. then pick up at their Portuguese depot for a few euros.

    Weight was not an issue so I bought a lot of bargain tooling that way.

    Now each item by road requires a customs declaration that cost 60 euros on top of VAT and import duty.

    Direct mail from the UK (or any non-EU country) can be done but clearance is aggravating, takes weeks or months, and is expensive.

    In effect, for us the UK is cut off for retail.

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    Funny you can look at who is 50 cycle and who is 60 cycle and see who was the influence when the
    Electrical system was being set up.
    Out side of the Americas mostly 50 thanks to the old empires Japan well they didn’t have any system
    Left after ww2 so they went 60 wonder why, same with Korea.

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    The Europeans, like most people, will adapt to the ways of the world over time. When I was a kid, I clearly recall people took pride in their own heritage and their own nationalism....but now we know better and realize we are guilty, inferior, and must quietly lay our head on the chopping block. Just look at religion - Christianity is being dropped in favor of Muslim-ism. I think there will soon come a day - my prediction is more than 50 years but less than 100 years - when France, then England, will have new names of Middle Eastern origin. Mark my words...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 72bwhite View Post
    Funny you can look at who is 50 cycle and who is 60 cycle and see who was the influence when the
    Electrical system was being set up.
    Out side of the Americas mostly 50 thanks to the old empires Japan well they didnít have any system
    Left after ww2 so they went 60 wonder why, same with Korea.
    As one who sources a lot motors and pumps 50Hz is like diet power. Your motors are all down rated so a 25Hp 60Hz motor is only 20HP 50Hz and then your pump needs to be bigger which adds more cost so all your capital costs are higher. All and all pump motor people aren't huge fans of 50Hz.

    I wonder where the tradeoff was on the other end maybe lower generator costs by spinning the turbines and generators at slower speeds. If 60hz saves us cost on our motors I wonder why they never thought to try 80 or 100Hz. Then again I bet 60Hz was also convenient for early clock makers too.

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    the upside however is the cost of transmission - generally 50Hz will be higher voltage, so for even load on the system the wires can be slightly thinner, this applies to every unit using said voltage - you basically need less copper to have the same power output

    I'm not a pump motor person, but I'd like to hear why 25hp 60hz motor suddenly becomes 20hp at 50hz, wouldn't the 50hz network have higher voltages? and since they usually do - would mean more torque at lower speed which would amount to similar power, that's how I see it at least

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    Misumi works pretty well in the EU.
    Fast, good service, good prices.

    IGUS is excellent, and they have a lot of stuff apart from linear slides and flex cable for automation and cnc stuff.
    Great prices.

    RS Components works very well, but is often quite pricey.
    Some countries better than others.

    HPC gears in the UK.
    Cross & Morse, uk, esp. gears.

    Some local suppliers, Unceta in Spain.

    Dinamica in Spain.
    Everything engineering, great on linear slides like HiWin.
    I buy from them as a Machine Tool manufacturer.

    Local steel suppliers in Spain, like Metalco (national) or Ferros Bosch in Mataro.
    Big warehouse, great prices and service, reasonable cut charges, usually on-demand supply.
    I buy from Ferros Bosch, Metalco in the past.

    For generic and hobbyest stuff, arceurotrade and chronos in the uk.
    RDG in the UK.

    Chester machine Tools UK for machinery, throughout europe.
    I bought my light industrial lathe from them. Excellent machine, service, and company. Keen pricing.

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    Default Does Europe have a McMasterCarr equivalent where do Germans shop for supplies?

    McMaster Carr isnít just a distributor, they are a publisher. (They actually say that about their company).

    What does this mean?

    Well, every product they sell has detailed technical and use information provided by MC, not the productís manufacturers.

    MC has used countless engineers,
    technicians, and industry experts to create this wealth of knowledge.

    No other company in the world has came close to matching the effectiveness of MCís breath of product offerings, along with detailed technical information.

    McMaster Carr should be studied by all business schools. Iím sure Jeff Bezos and other big shots have waved billions in front of the owners to buy it, and Iím sure MCís answer is always a resounding NO. (Thank goodness)

    It would take years and billions of dollars to match the MC business model...thatís probably why you donít see an equivalent in Europe.

    ToolCat

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  16. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    No other company in the world has came close to matching the effectiveness of MCís breath of product offerings, along with detailed technical information.

    McMaster Carr should be studied by all business schools. Iím sure Jeff Bezos and other big shots have waved billions in front of the owners to buy it, and Iím sure MCís answer is always a resounding NO. (Thank goodness)

    It would take years and billions of dollars to match the MC business model...thatís probably why you donít see an equivalent in Europe.

    ToolCat
    I am not sure how true this statement really is. Both Grainger and MSC have done a pretty good job of putting together enormous catalogs of readily stocked items for quick shipment. In the electronics world Newark, DigiKey and Allied have all achieved similar.

    What's interesting is the area that McMaster seems to have everyone beat is the end user experience from the ease of searching stuff on the website, instant CAD model downloads and the educational content you mention.

    I would think that in the scheme of things the real challenge/cost of running a mega catalog is in financing all the inventory and managing the logistics of the business. I wonder how much extra costs go into making an awesome website like McMaster's vs how much is really saved on a second rate one like Grainger's or MSC's.

    Even with all of this it does make you wonder why if the USA can have 3 mega catalogs for industrial stuff and 3 major ones for electronics Europe can't even get one. Heck unless there's some local regulations one has to wonder why one of the big 3 above hasn't tried to set up a European branch given the apparent lack of competition over there.



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    jz79, I really has nothing to do with voltage. Strictly about speed.Same load,reduce speed, less hp produced/required. Increase speed ,same load more hp produced/required. If your 50hz 20hp motor was hooked up to a vfd and run at 60hz it would produce 25.
    All recent motors I have bought have both 50 & 60 hp/kw ratings and more are having an 80hz rating also since a lot are designed for vfd use.

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    Steve-I, I had a German born factory tech translate a German tech drawing for me and it was pretty close to what I had guessed. Then I Googled a free translator and guess what , it was better than the tech did.!

    When I first started here 30 years ago we got the first of the KBA Pleneta presses all the documents were in German. I'd get called in at night to fix something and have to figure out the German text.

    The new stuff is pretty good but I think they use a German that learned English to translate instead of an American that learned German. The sentence structure is sometimes confusing. Not nearly as bad as the old Japanese motor cycle manuals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    ....
    MC has used countless engineers,
    technicians, and industry experts to create this wealth of knowledge.
    Used is the correct word here.
    Love the company to death and account coming up on 40 years and buy stuff very often.
    Supplier side ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by adammil1 View Post
    why if the USA can have 3 mega catalogs for industrial stuff and 3 major ones for electronics Europe can't even get one. Heck unless there's some local regulations one has to wonder why one of the big 3 above hasn't tried to set up a European branch given the apparent lack of competition over there.
    There are several for electronic components.
    Mouser is really good, they have branches in multiple countries, brick and mortar stores in cities, very competitive prices, decent online catalog (could be improved) and delivery time is almost miraculous.

    There is a cross border car parts giant too, German based autodoc is eating up their competition, with individual websites for each country.

    You have to realize that Europe is a free trade zone, but not one country.

    As for US companies moving in, there are some barriers; most US products wouldn't be sellable. As in the start of this thread, DIN standards are for nearly all technical parts.

    Everything is metric; tools, fasteners, dimensions.
    Inch denominated items are as rare as penguins. Except pipe threads, and even those are different.
    Gears, belts, metal classification, different.

    Descriptions have to be translated, and I've been using auto translate a lot as I'm monolingual. Sometimes it works but it needs to be checked by a human who knows technical jargon. Each item description would have to be in 5 or more languages.

    Then there are legal barriers; tax codes are not homogenous, neither is banking. If I want to make instant online payment to a Dutch, German, or French company I need three different systems.
    When a Portuguese business buys anything, the purchase has to have the right tax number in the right place, or it can't be written off. Local business uses automated sales tax filing from the wholesaler. It's finicky, complex, and local.

    Bank transfers work well across the EU with mandatory homogenous IBAN numbers, but have to be checked "by hand" by the recipient.
    Paypal is working ok but is still not widely adopted in Europe.
    Few people use credit cards.

    There are legal barriers to large companies moving in and wiping out small local businesses. I don't know the details, they're clearly surmountable but not easy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adammil1 View Post
    Sorry for the confusion. Historically for a US application I use a NEMA motor and a gear pump. At this point I know my gear pump (changing to 50Hz won't make much of a difference here),I now have a Siemens ATEX rated IEC motor so now I am trying to translate the coupling assembly.

    I have checked with all US suppliers and this is a custom made to order part given limited use of IEC motors in this country. I am wondering if there is a standard thing over in Germany.

    I wonder why the Europeans felt the need to create new motor standards?
    Couple of things. If this pump is going to Europe in an environment that contains flammable/explosive fluids or gasses or dust(e.g. requiring an ATEX rating) you may need to abandon your adaptor idea and get a pump that is also ATEX rated. The standards are really strict. The pump needs the certification to guarantee they won't create high temperatures or static electricity which could ignite anything in the area.

    If it's just to use an exiting pump with an IEC motor (that happen to also be atex) overseas pumping something harmless like water with no gasses or dust anywhere around, you could probably make the adaptor up yourself...this is a machinist forum. It's two bolt patterns and a coupling.

    As an to why they have their own standards: you do realise the rest of the world has industry? Also you do realise the rest of the world uses the metric system and really despises having to use imperial bolts?

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    Mark,
    Although some of your experiences are similar to mine, there are differences as well. Yes, Mauser is pretty good, but I went to Mouser to buy a new set of aligator clips for my Simpson 260 late model (series 8) VOM. Mauser is the Simpson rep in Europe. I could not identify the correct part number to order. I called tech support. They did not even know the end item , Simpson 260. They promised to get back to me with the correct info. They didn't for 2 weeks. I ended up calling Simpson uSA tech support and had the number in minutes. I then called Mauser and ordered that part number. I had a similar experience with RS and Tsubaki. I needed two shaft couplers. I had the correct part number from the Tsubaki online catalogue. RS is a Tsubaki reseller in Germany......no response. I went to Tsubaki Germany........no response. I went to Tsubaki Europe and complained. I got a response from Tsubaki Germany, they said I could have this coupling in 3 months, maybe, special order for 250 Euros each, + shipping and taxes. These were metric shaft couplings. I bought 2 new old stock on eBay.com in the USA for $20 each.

    Amazon tries to have sellers sell throughout the EU, but if you are a seller, you then have to file a VAT return for every country you sell in, within the Europe. It doesn't work.

    Lastly, the German language issue is one of unique technical vocabularies unknown outside the specific trades that use those terms. These vocabularies are not known to the general pubic or to translate engines like Google.

    These national restrictions inhibit any EU wide reseller. The paper work required would put the end item cost prohibitive to any reseller like MC or even Amazon. The only solution to this European dilemma would be a common fiscal policy including taxation. Politically, I don't see this happening in my lifetime.

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    Amazon is actually working ok for most items. I guess they have the clout to make it work.

    They usually send to us from their Spanish depot, sometimes other EU ones.
    But they don't sell much in the mechanical realm.
    I did order a part for my central heat system though.

    Ebay still hasn't figured out that the UK is no longer in the EU.
    setting search for "EU only" returns UK sales as well as European ones.

    Aggravating.
    .


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