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Does your electricity shut off for a few seconds at a time?

Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Location
marysville ohio
A week never goes by without my power going out. Most of the time for 10 seconds or so. Of course this shuts down the computers, phase converter and whatever else. The problem is when the cnc lathe or mill is cutting. It breaks the tool almost every time, this time it was an iscar parting blade, by the time I buy a new blade, insert and shipping I am out 150.00+. And of course the power co. that is happy to hit me up for 700.00 / mo. does not care one bit. The power co. just called back, some moron ran out of talent and crashed into a power pole, apparently the system senses an issue and reroutes the power, whatever, I am tired of the power co. causing a cnc io crash.
 
I'm happy I have a customer friendly power coop. I had a drop in voltage last year. Knocked about $5k worth electronics on a mill, lathe, and rotary screw, plus down time. Called the pow co immediately and they said they had a incident during some line work. They started a claim and it got sent off to their ins. co. I got everything taken care of in a reasonable amount of time with very little hassle. I call every time there is a problem with my juice(which isn't very often). I make a note of who I talked to and time/date. They always let me know if I have and damage or problems, they will do their best to remedy the situation.
 
A week never goes by without my power going out. Most of the time for 10 seconds or so. Of course this shuts down the computers, phase converter and whatever else. The problem is when the cnc lathe or mill is cutting. It breaks the tool almost every time, this time it was an iscar parting blade, by the time I buy a new blade, insert and shipping I am out 150.00+. And of course the power co. that is happy to hit me up for 700.00 / mo. does not care one bit. The power co. just called back, some moron ran out of talent and crashed into a power pole, apparently the system senses an issue and reroutes the power, whatever, I am tired of the power co. causing a cnc io crash.

At work almost never, big company, dedicated line from the nearest substation. At home regularly during the stormy summer months in central Florida.

They make UPS (uninterruptable power supply) systems to isolate you from the grid. Normally intended for computers and such. Probably expensive to power a mill or lathe.

CarlBoyd
 
That would blow!! What happens on your finishing pass with a Big $$$ part in the chuck, vise, or whatever making the cut and you lose power?

Is there some kind of power fail early detection?
 
Have you contacted the CNC machine manufacturers to see if they have suggestions to at least reduce the level of damage when this occurs? You can't be the only user this happens to.
 
At work almost never, big company, dedicated line from the nearest substation. At home regularly during the stormy summer months in central Florida.

They make UPS (uninterruptable power supply) systems to isolate you from the grid. Normally intended for computers and such. Probably expensive to power a mill or lathe.

CarlBoyd

They make UPS that can run data centers.
I think flywheel technology is looked at favorably for short interruptions.
 
If its happening on a weekly basis, that sounds like something you could take up with the regulator if the power company won't do anything about it.

You should get a Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) though. Not gonna be cheap for a big power machine, but should still be better than breaking a tool or workpiece every week.
 
I'm happy I have a customer friendly power coop. I had a drop in voltage last year. Knocked about $5k worth electronics on a mill, lathe, and rotary screw, plus down time. Called the pow co immediately and they said they had a incident during some line work. They started a claim and it got sent off to their ins. co. I got everything taken care of in a reasonable amount of time with very little hassle. I call every time there is a problem with my juice(which isn't very often). I make a note of who I talked to and time/date. They always let me know if I have any damage or problems, they will do their best to remedy the situation.
 
That would blow!! What happens on your finishing pass with a Big $$$ part in the chuck, vise, or whatever making the cut and you lose power?

Is there some kind of power fail early detection?

It has happened, I guess I need a crystal ball to stare into, maybe I will be able to see when some dumb ass is going to knock down a power pole or a suicidal squirrel is going to get into the substation. Not to mention the meth. head trying to steal live copper.......
 
yes, weekly if not daily. seems to happen at night a lot for some reason. most of the time it's for 10 secs or so like you said but sometimes, once a month or so, it's for an hour or more. one of my neighbors runs a food distro svc and have had to invest in generators as the power co basically told her to go fuck herself.

sadly as we live in a part of SC that puts big business above citizens rights so the power co here is a monopoly and of course could give a shit
 
That would blow!! What happens on your finishing pass with a Big $$$ part in the chuck, vise, or whatever making the cut and you lose power?

Is there some kind of power fail early detection?

So far, I've only had power cut out twice. The first time was while surfacing an expensive, super hot F/A. Put a huge gouge in the part. I was pissed, called the power company to bitch. They pointed out, in the fine print, they're not responsible for jack shit.
 
It certainly seems that you will get no help from the utility, so ... the question is what can you do to minimize damage when it occurs. I believe most modern controls have power failure detection. If the servos can retain power long enough to reduce cutting tool engagement you might at least save the tool. I ask again - have you tried talking to the application engineers about minimizing damage during a power failure? Unreliable power is not that uncommon, even in parts of the U.S., and is very common in some other countries.

yes, weekly if not daily. seems to happen at night a lot for some reason. most of the time it's for 10 secs or so like you said but sometimes, once a month or so, it's for an hour or more. one of my neighbors runs a food distro svc and have had to invest in generators as the power co basically told her to go fuck herself.

sadly as we live in a part of SC that puts big business above citizens rights so the power co here is a monopoly and of course could give a shit
 
It has happened, I guess I need a crystal ball to stare into, maybe I will be able to see when some dumb ass is going to knock down a power pole or a suicidal squirrel is going to get into the substation. Not to mention the meth. head trying to steal live copper.......

Oh, you've gotta love these smart-ass retorts....

Nearly all servo drive and VFDs have low bus voltage detection. How this feature is used varies. One would think one could install additional filter capacitors and have the control reverse a motor upon low voltage detection. The additional capacitors would hold enough juice to move the respective axis to a safe clearance plane. I would suspect newer controls and drives would have this capability, but would need to contact the machine mfg for more information. OTOH it may be difficult to do this in EVERY situation. On a two axis lathe it seems would be a no brainer...

My two cents... (note: no refunds or exchanges offered)
 
No, I do not have that problem. I live in Beaumont, Texas and our power only goes out a few times a year.

Back in the 90s I worked for a TV station here and we had a lot of outages, mostly at the transmitter site which was out in the woods about 10 miles outside of town. That was money lost and the boss was constantly on my ass to stop it. Short story is I investigated and found it was primarily due to a lack of maintenance by the power company. They had curtailed their pole and tree trimming program in the rural area around our transmitter and tree limbs were very close to the HV lines and vines had grown completely to the top of many of their poles, again within inches of the HV lines. Any wind would produce a short and take that section of the grid down. This was completely obvious after I made a two hour inspection of the lines near our transmitter site.

I met with the power company's engineer and explained this to him. He was sympathetic, but nothing happened. I suspect he was well aware of the problem but had been cut off by higher management, probably due to cost. My boss was an SOB and continued to ride me about it. I like telling the story from this point, but you can skip ahead to the last paragraph if you wish.

<rant mode on>

First for background, the station manager and two of the other managers at this TV station were very hostile to engineers in general and to me in particular. When I was hired I was given a lecture about how they did not like BS. How their previous chief engineer had always tried to BS them. How they were good at detecting it and that they would not tolerate any from me. I should have ran at that point but being a honest person I thought there would be no problems.

Anyway, I decided to document the power problems. It was pre-digital days so I bought some film for my 35mm camera and took off in my truck. I spent over two weeks roaming the power grid and photographing the poles and trees the wires passed through. I recorded every pole number and tree location. When the film was developed and printed I made two binders with the photos, a description of every location, and the times and dates of each observation. I was hard at work on these binders one afternoon when my boss proudly announced that he was tired of waiting and had scheduled a meeting with the power company the next morning. He stated he was going to get to the bottom of the situation. I wasn't ready but I worked late. I came in early the next morning and after two hours more work completing my binders, I joined the meeting a half hour late. I got stares from my boss and a couple of his other managers who were present.

In the meeting the power company was represented by the engineer who I had previously spoken to and a PR guy. The engineer was sitting back in his chair and saying nothing. The PR guy was applying the BS so thick that you could walk on it and my boss and his other managers were eating it up eagerly and begging for more. They loved it. They were buying, were completely agreeing with every turd that was offered. After listening to this for about five minutes I placed the binders in front of the power company's people and my boss. They all looked. After about a minute or two, things changed rapidly. The power company engineer came forward in his chair and joined the conversation. The PR guy just SHUT UP. He knew I had called him a bare faced liar. I believe I detected a small grin, perhaps a smirk on the face of their engineer. He completely acknowledged that they had neglected the tree trimming program. He promised he would take care of the situation.

I continued to check the power grid over the next weeks and months. I saw trucks working the area and the trees were trimmed properly. The vines were cleared from the poles. And the power outages decreased significantly. In the years since then I have made occasional trips back to that area and have observed that the tree trimming has continued. Although I no longer work there and do not have access to the power outage figures, I feel confident that they are still at low levels. I had embarrassed the power company into action. I never got a single nod or single word of thanks or acknowledgment from my boss. But I grin every time I think about it. I'm grinning now.

<rant mode off>

The point is, power outages have actual causes and they can be prevented. From Google Maps it appears that your area has a good number of trees. It is possible that the outages you are experiencing are due to a lack of proper tree trimming around the power lines in and near your town. You could drive around a bit and take some photos. Present them to the power company and see if it helps. Meet with their engineers, not PR people or salesmen. Keep in mind that any incident on the grid that serves you, even across town or outside of town, even on another branch of the HV lines, could be reflected to an outage at your location. So check out all lines that exit from the sub-station that serves your area, not just the ones that come directly to your location. My actions of years past at that rural grid may be part of the reason why my power here in town is also very reliable.
 
I would not spend any money on power monitoring equipment unless you get into an actual dispute with the power company. The power companies are WELL aware of virtually every outage, no matter how short it may be.

If the power company does dispute your claims and you do need to actually document the outages, most inexpensive UPSs have monitoring ability and can be connected to the computer they protect to log those outages and other problems. They can be purchased for under $100, with the software needed for recording them.

A relatively small UPS may be able to keep the CNC running just long enough to shut down gracefully. This may only take 10 or 20 seconds. Talk to the CNC's manufacturer and the UPS makers. It could cost less than two or three of your disastrous shutdowns.
 
The additional capacitors would hold enough juice to move the respective axis to a safe clearance plane.
Where is a "safe clearance plane"?

If you're running a lathe, would that simply be moving the carriage toward the tailstock?

What if you're cutting an internal shoulder with the larger diameter toward the headstock?

- Leigh
 
Years ago, 1970's or 80's, Amican Tool CNC lathes would probably of had the GE 1050 CNC control, most of the machines I sold all had it since no one wanted to mess with a part that was 3 ft dia and 24 ft long. In the control was a feature called Tool Inspection and Retrace...

It worked like this...

The tool breaks or you just want to stop the program, and before you move anything, You put TI&R into operation and jog, or use the Handwheels to move the tool away from the work. The control REMEMBERs every move.. then you ajustor replace the tool, Now your ready to go again, start the spindle and start the RETRACE program, and the new tool starts cutting several inches before the place where you hit the E-Stop or feed hold...and complets the program.

Do any of the controls of today have anything like this TODAY ?

If they have that feature, maybe a power failure could detect and start the TI&R program? Wonder who is going to dig into their checkbook and pay for it? Ahh, no problem, machine shops make tons of $$ or is that tons of chips ??... no matter, create a good feature, people will buy it...
 








 
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