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Dorian Tool Post Adjustment

ClappedOutBport

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Hello.

A few years back dad replaced his Chinese wedge AXA post with this Dorian, which I am not a fan of to put it kindly. The issue is that the cam profile does not seem correct. Instead of giving a nice progressive tightening feel it just goes WHAM and stops. On the side mount there is probably less than one degree of rotation between loose and fully locked. The front is maybe 5 degrees and feels considerably better but still mega sucky. I'd expect at least about 20 degrees with the posts I'm used to. The cam seems to be far to steep in the location where it locks.

Moving the lever with no block mounted I can see where in the cam profile it gets much more gradual then starts going back the other way. But the wedges would have to ground off by a tremendous amount to reach that point.

Is there an adjustment for this?
Was Dorian QC just drunk and the wedges are much too long?
Am I just a whiner and this is "how it's supposed to be"?

TIA.

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Sounds like you've got it sucked down in the compound too deep. There is no comparison in the Chinese and Dorian.

Hi Ray. I'm not sure what you mean. You can see the tool-block is set right in the middle of travel. It wouldn't make a difference if it was a bit higher or lower either, it would still wedge it all the same so long as the Wedge is fully in the block. I ussually run it on a 10x36 but adapted it to a 1440 for lighter work. The toolheight is still exactly the same though.

I'll try to get a video. Maybe with the Dorian working right it's better, but right now it is certainly worse.
 
I've only used one Dorian, a CXA on a Haas TL-1 about 10 yrs ago. But it certainly didn't act like yours -- it had about 45 deg of swing on the handle to lockup on a tool block. I wonder if the problem is with your tool blocks and not the post? How do your female dovetails measure compared to Dorian's spec? Just taking Wild assed guesses here. I do like it when things lock up rock solid, but yours is a little *too* solid.
 
I've only used one Dorian, a CXA on a Haas TL-1 about 10 yrs ago. But it certainly didn't act like yours -- it had about 45 deg of swing on the handle to lockup on a tool block. I wonder if the problem is with your tool blocks and not the post? How do your female dovetails measure compared to Dorian's spec? Just taking Wild assed guesses here. I do like it when things lock up rock solid, but yours is a little *too* solid.

I have not measured. I don't think I have any actual Dorian blocks to measure to, but I should be able to read off their specs online. If I had to wager a guess though, I would say they would have to be at least 50 thousands longer in the between the dovetails to work like I'd like.

Are you using Dorian or Aloris holders? I've noticed there is variation among some the cheapo/knockoff holders, which of course will affect the handle rotation amount. I haven't had any issues with any of the holders (name-brand or knockoffs) with an Aloris block.

Aloris and some others. Doesn't seem to make one bit of difference.

Hey, take a look at this thread in the SB forum:

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...oris-too-lpost-378409/index4.html#post3564929

He's got the same thing with an Aloris. Turns out they had looser specs on the holders that were meant for piston type posts. Dunno if thats your prob, but maybe that helps. They are talking about dovetail width too.

I'll check it out. Unless the dimensions are just wildly different, I'm not going to get the action I want. I made a little video which should pretty clearly demonstrate what I'm talking about. Thanks for all the suggestions though everyone.

 
Does it lock up tight enough to use? It's an AXA, it doesn't have to lock like a bank vault as long as it's useable and it repeats positioning ok. If not, take it apart and make sure everything is in good shape inside. There may be something out of alignment or position if it's been apart previously. Or maybe something is worn out.
 
I bought a Dorian for one of my lathes a few years ago. Works fine, but it is shorter than Aloris posts. if you switch tooling from one lathe to the Dorian, you have to reset the heights, something a 3/16ths.

JH
 
Watched the video.
WTF yeah thats just a tad too short of a turn.
You said it worked OK on another machine?

No, it has never worked any different than this.

Does it lock up tight enough to use? It's an AXA, it doesn't have to lock like a bank vault as long as it's useable and it repeats positioning ok. If not, take it apart and make sure everything is in good shape inside. There may be something out of alignment or position if it's been apart previously. Or maybe something is worn out.

Mostly. I'm always afraid if I get any chatter it will rattle loose and bust my insert as the cam isn't jammed up tight like it should be. It just sucks to be a total downgrade. Dad sold the wedge post we had before before I ever even saw this one, telling me how it "locks up so easily".

I bought a Dorian for one of my lathes a few years ago. Works fine, but it is shorter than Aloris posts. if you switch tooling from one lathe to the Dorian, you have to reset the heights, something a 3/16ths.

JH

Toolheights are set right. Wouldn't make a difference regardless. I think I'll send Dorian that video and ask WTF is going on and maybe the will have be able to tell me something. I they replace something that "works".
 
simple get an Aloris one,
only partly joking.
sounds like something is either broken,
not assembled correctly , or worn out.
take it apart and compare the parts from the 2 different positions.
 
Or some dirt, chips, or crud got inside the post. I would disassemble it and carefully clean all the parts. Then put it back together with a dab of good quality grease on the working surfaces.

But then, I do not like any of the dovetail style QC tool posts. They just aren't all that solid. Why not make a rock solid one? This design has been completely trouble free for well over ten years now.

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Solid as a rock, No internal parts so no place for dirt or chips to collect. In fact, it is self cleaning when a new holder is dropped on. Dead nuts repeatable and it is hands down the fastest tool change of any quick change post and that's using only one hand and no tools. You can have your coffee cup in the other hand but the tool change is so fast you won't have time to take even a quick sip. This is a real time saver in a commercial shop.

Latest version of the plans for sale:
Quick Change Tool Post for Lathe - HomemadeTools.net


Or an earlier version is free here:
Dropbox - QCToolPostRc.doc - Simplify your life
 
simple get an Aloris one,
only partly joking.
sounds like something is either broken,
not assembled correctly , or worn out.
take it apart and compare the parts from the 2 different positions.

I'd love to, unfortunately people seems to value those pretty highly. Dastardly people. :rolleyes5:

I'll email Dorian with the video tomorrow, see what there response is and maybe take it apart. I really, really doubt this post is worn out. Usually a heavily used post will be dinged up with the name tag smashed and the bottom, area under the nut , area under the adjusters, and the dovetails will be polished up. This has none of that. The wedge blocks looked perfect when I pulled them out to inspect it.

Or some dirt, chips, or crud got inside the post. I would disassemble it and carefully clean all the parts. Then put it back together with a dab of good quality grease on the working surfaces.

But then, I do not like any of the dovetail style QC tool posts. They just aren't all that solid. Why not make a rock solid one? This design has been completely trouble free for well over ten years now.

Solid as a rock, No internal parts so no place for dirt or chips to collect. In fact, it is self cleaning when a new holder is dropped on. Dead nuts repeatable and it is hands down the fastest tool change of any quick change post and that's using only one hand and no tools. You can have your coffee cup in the other hand but the tool change is so fast you won't have time to take even a quick sip. This is a real time saver in a commercial shop.

Latest version of the plans for sale:
Quick Change Tool Post for Lathe - HomemadeTools.net


Or an earlier version is free here:
Dropbox - QCToolPostRc.doc - Simplify your life

Hello Paul. I may disassemble it and check it out.

Does this site allow free advertising of your plans, Paul? I would consider the suggestion to that I throw out an expensive American tool post as well as 12+ toolholders and spend a month remaking all those holders + engineering custom holders for boring bars and parting tools, insane. Even as a home-shopper I don't have time to waste like that. So no thank you.

I'm also not sold on the rigidity of your design to be honest. I just don't see nearly as much moment of inertia TBH. You've got the cad plans I'm sure. Show me an FEA against an AXA and I'll believe it.
 
I just had an Aloris wedge type apart. That design i would explain as a 2 jaw scroll chuck. No cam action. When the jaws tighten, that's it. And the wedges move up and down with threads of scroll.

Looking at your pic. I don't think I would call it a wedge type. It looks like a piston type, with the piston shooting out the side where a wedge would normally slide up and down.

Dorian does make a really nice wedge type, but I really don't think that one is. Piston type are usually the economy version.
 
I just had an Aloris wedge type apart. That design i would explain as a 2 jaw scroll chuck. No cam action. When the jaws tighten, that's it. And the wedges move up and down with threads of scroll.

Looking at your pic. I don't think I would call it a wedge type. It looks like a piston type, with the piston shooting out the side where a wedge would normally slide up and down.

Dorian does make a really nice wedge type, but I really don't think that one is. Piston type are usually the economy version.

I would agree. It's sort of both though. It's a high angle wedge as opposed to a low one, but it acts more like a piston. Not a fan in general.
 
Texasgunsmith has it...That is not a "wedge" style post.....Real wedge post uses the angle of the wedge to tighten the dovetail...the wedge being moved via a thread as part of the handle center post.

Your arrangement makes the clamping pressure with a straight 90* push perpendicular to the dovetail....no real mechanical advantage....not seen inside that post, but guessing thet there is a simple
cam that pushes the plunger out...
Further , the contact of the plunger is not full length of your holder.....

In short this has to be the economy post by Dorian...Scotch tape a quarter to the side of that post to make it worth throwing away...
Buy a real wedge post...Dorian does make such as does Aloris.....

If you want rigid and consistent tool changes go MultiFix....

Cheers Ross
 
Texasgunsmith has it...That is not a "wedge" style post.....Real wedge post uses the angle of the wedge to tighten the dovetail...the wedge being moved via a thread as part of the handle center post.

Your arrangement makes the clamping pressure with a straight 90* push perpendicular to the dovetail....no real mechanical advantage....not seen inside that post, but guessing thet there is a simple
cam that pushes the plunger out...
Further , the contact of the plunger is not full length of your holder.....

In short this has to be the economy post by Dorian...Scotch tape a quarter to the side of that post to make it worth throwing away...
Buy a real wedge post...Dorian does make such as does Aloris.....

If you want rigid and consistent tool changes go MultiFix....

Cheers Ross


Thankfully we have enough money to throw a pricey toolpost away. Except we don't. Yes Aloris is a nice post but not all of us can afford that. The simple fact of the matter is that a quality American post should work well, even if it's a less than ideal design.

I called Dorian today and showed them the video and they gave this response:

So what I believe may be wrong is the gib may not be moving along the threaded guide bushing properly. When you loosen and tighten the handle it rotates the guide bushing internally. When the thread goes in the tightening direction I believe the teeth on the gib may not be flowing fluently on the threaded guide busing.
That being said. I do not know without it here for me to take a look at to find out if it is the guide busing or the actual gibb that could be the issue. I did see that the other holding area holds the tool, but the guide bushing could still be damaged.


Edit: I forgot to mention that the man on the phone said that since it was obsolete, no matter what the reason for it not working(including a manufacturing defect) they would not warranty it or any parts. He was however, willing to sell them if they had any available. That spells pretty lousy customer service to me. Someone said this on my youtube video and I concur.

I bought a Dorian CXA and it's equally as pathetic. MSC wouldn't stand behind it, Dorian says go through the retailer. A miserable circle of zero customer service, quality. I feel your pain! NEVER again will Dorian get a penny out of me for a product. Hope you have better luck.

 
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