Drawings of "auto-retract" single point threader

Ray Behner · Sep 8, 2013

OK, not actually drawings. Got to thinking of all the tool holder sizes. AXA thru EA. There's no way I could give dimensions for your size of holder. Therefore, I took pictures explaining what I could. I used a Hiwin carriage and rail, because I have one. I'm sure Thompson or others would work as well. Mine is rated for 8000# in motion and dbl that for static. Plenty strong, so for the AXA for example, a much smaller unit would be sufficient. They are pricey! My holder is a "CA", so I used a 4" x 6" block for the "V" section. I suggest the flanged style carriage. Seems more fitting for this application. As Limy Sami pointed out, you want to have the trigger/sear disengage without any forward/aft movement. That, you'll have to experiment with. Some modifications were made as I went along, so if it looks different than original...it is. I didn't care for the crank handle, so I used a ball and stem.
Decided a return spring on the shaft was overkill. The main spring does just fine. On the smaller holders, you may want to downsize the shaft from 5/8 to 1/2, or even smaller. An "AXA" is pretty puny. My tool holder will accept 1" tooling. If you have an "EA" you may want to go bigger. An "AXA", for sure much smaller.
I used some quality springs that I had in stock. Hdwe store springs are a poor choice for this.
Look thru the McM Carr catalog to get an idea of your size requirements.
If there are any questions whatsoever, I will try my best to answer them. If there are any improvements or suggestions, let's hear them.

100_1458_zpsf4667ca3.jpg Photo by rbehner | Photobucket

jCandlish · Sep 8, 2013

Ray Behner said:
OK, not actually drawing

I'm thinking the linear bearing in this application makes the design patentable. Did you apply?

Ray Behner · Sep 8, 2013

<jbc> said:
I'm thinking the linear bearing in this application makes the design patentable. Did you apply?

Oh heck no. I'm done with the patent process.

CalG · Sep 8, 2013

I can't see any benefit to linear bearings over metal on metal dovetail or box ways.

If the tool geometry does not pull in, the anti friction aspect "appears to be" insignificant. Spring return sufficient to provide a positive trigger function should be enough.

A trigger sear function along with a positive withdrawal action would permit a predictable termination of the thread cycle.

Imagine the hand action as depicted by Black Forest with the kick out of Ray's design.

PERFECT!

snowman · Sep 8, 2013

I sold a bunch of those carriages with about 5" of rail at NAMES this year for $5 or $10 each. Somebody better make a bunch of these things and market them!

John Stevenson had one a while back that pivoted. You just lifted the cutter up and out of the way. Not automatic, but hey, still better than running the cross slide in and out.

Heavey Metal · Sep 8, 2013

CalG said:
I can't see any benefit to linear bearings over metal on metal dovetail or box ways.

My bet is that you have never made a box or dovetail way.

Neat design Ray thanks for shareing it with us.

Ray Behner · Sep 9, 2013

CalG said:
I can't see any benefit to linear bearings over metal on metal dovetail or box ways.

If the tool geometry does not pull in, the anti friction aspect "appears to be" insignificant. Spring return sufficient to provide a positive trigger function should be enough.

A trigger sear function along with a positive withdrawal action would permit a predictable termination of the thread cycle.

Imagine the hand action as depicted by Black Forest with the kick out of Ray's design.

PERFECT!

Cal, You may be right, but this was "pre-built" and ready to go. Plus, the action is as smooth as silk with absolutely no play in the slide. No adjustments needed.

Trboatworks · Sep 9, 2013

Credit to this forum again.
I have a old Hardinge with the quick retract for threading & have been musing on a design which would load in a standard tool holder.
Low and behold- here it is.

I enjoy design so much that I will still go forward.
A cook off?
Give me a year or so & I will have something made up...

steve-l · Sep 9, 2013

The Multi-Fix Quick Change tool holder system has both internal and external retracting tool holders for threading and boring. I have both in the "B" size. New they are expensive, but I bought both of mine used on German eBay at about $130 ea. I think making one for less would be very difficult. Although manual, they could easily be modified for tripped spring retraction. If anyone is interested, I can make photos.

moonlight machine · Sep 9, 2013

steve-l said:
The Multi-Fix Quick Change tool holder system has both internal and external retracting tool holders for threading and boring. I have both in the "B" size. New they are expensive, but I bought both of mine used on German eBay at about $130 ea. I think making one for less would be very difficult. Although manual, they could easily be modified for tripped spring retraction. If anyone is interested, I can make photos.

Yes, lets see photos.

CalG · Sep 9, 2013

Heavey Metal said:
CalG said:

I can't see any benefit to linear bearings over metal on metal dovetail or box ways.

My bet is that you have never made a box or dovetail way.

Neat design Ray thanks for shareing it with us.

Click to expand...

Y

Your bet is lost!

But I have not made a ball slide. And prefer the box ways for a variety of reasons.

The comment was not in critique of Ray's execution, rather to offer an open opinion for alternate construction.

The part being at hand was the obvious critical aspect for the present tool, and it sounds as though the world should be floating in the devices at nearly no cost ;-)

Ray did ask "If there are any questions whatsoever, I will try my best to answer them. If there are any improvements or suggestions, let's hear them."

My post in celebration of Ray's work came in the first thread. Words are not sufficient ;-)

cheers

sfriedberg · Sep 9, 2013

Thank you, Ray. Your generosity to PM is endless.

Roger Williams · Sep 9, 2013

Hello, Snowman mentioned John Stevenson's flip up tool holder , this is my incarnation, I hope! Don't cringe too much at the brass thread being, because I was so intent in getting the forward and reverse right, I perhaps fed in a bit much on a couple of cuts. As JS said , you can even put on the next cut on the way back. My first attempt, so don't be too critical. Thread cut at 200 RPM..
[video]http://m.youtube.com/channel/UCy_uts-v7ItH9Z-K-gIEgAg#/watch?v=6tbSoegg9yE[/video]

Roger Williams · Sep 9, 2013

Re post 13, I've tried to post a video, but just can't get the hang of it. Sorry !!!!!. :angry:

Actually, if you tap on videos on my U tube page, it works.

Poly30 · Mar 5, 2020

Bonjour monsieur Behner,
Je suis admiratif par le travail accompli, afin de m'aider dans ma tâche, vous serait-il possible de me préciser la référence du rail/glissiere Hiwin qui conviendrait pour un bloc porte-outil de 85×85×65 mm et porte-outil de 105×55×35 mm; j'espère arriver à un résultat acceptable.
Espérant une réponse, je vous salue courtoisement. Poly 30

Rob F. · Mar 5, 2020

Poly30 said:
Bonjour monsieur Behner,
Je suis admiratif par le travail accompli, afin de m'aider dans ma tâche, vous serait-il possible de me préciser la référence du rail/glissiere Hiwin qui conviendrait pour un bloc porte-outil de 85×85×65 mm et porte-outil de 105×55×35 mm; j'espère arriver à un résultat acceptable.
Espérant une réponse, je vous salue courtoisement. Poly 30

This is what a translate site came up with for those of us that dont speak french:
Hello Mr. Behner
I am admiring for the work done, in order to help me in my task, would it be possible for you to specify to me the reference of the rail/glissiere Hiwin that would be suitable for a tool-carrying block of 85-85-65 mm and tool holder of 105-55-35 mm; I hope to arrive at an acceptable result.
Hoping for an answer, I greet you courteously. Poly 30

Ray Behner · Mar 5, 2020

Poly 30
PM sent.............and thanks Rob

Poly30 · Mar 18, 2020

Porte-outil rétractable

Ray Behner said:
Poly 30
PM sent.............and thanks Rob

Bonsoir monsieur Behner,
Merci pour l'information qui m'a permis de commander le rail Hiwin réf: HGR 25, un peu plus petit mais a un prix abordable. J'aurai une deuxième demande, très importante, concernant le ressort; quels sont ses caractéristiques: diamètre du fil, longueur totale libre, diamètre extérieur. Si toute fois vous avez acheté ce ressort, pourriez-vous me communiquer un lien pour le commander. Encore une chose, ce ressort, a t'il subi un traitement thermique ?
Tout en vous souhaitant une bonne soirée et en espérant une réponse positive, je vous prie d'agréer, monsieur, l'expression de mes meilleures salutations. Poly30

Ray Behner · Mar 18, 2020

Poly30 said:
Bonsoir monsieur Behner,
Merci pour l'information qui m'a permis de commander le rail Hiwin réf: HGR 25, un peu plus petit mais a un prix abordable. J'aurai une deuxième demande, très importante, concernant le ressort; quels sont ses caractéristiques: diamètre du fil, longueur totale libre, diamètre extérieur. Si toute fois vous avez acheté ce ressort, pourriez-vous me communiquer un lien pour le commander. Encore une chose, ce ressort, a t'il subi un traitement thermique ?
Tout en vous souhaitant une bonne soirée et en espérant une réponse positive, je vous prie d'agréer, monsieur, l'expression de mes meilleures salutations. Poly30

Wow, that's been 7 years ago. Let me dig into it and get back to you.

Rob F. · Mar 18, 2020

Poly30 said:
Bonsoir monsieur Behner,
Merci pour l'information qui m'a permis de commander le rail Hiwin réf: HGR 25, un peu plus petit mais a un prix abordable. J'aurai une deuxième demande, très importante, concernant le ressort; quels sont ses caractéristiques: diamètre du fil, longueur totale libre, diamètre extérieur. Si toute fois vous avez acheté ce ressort, pourriez-vous me communiquer un lien pour le commander. Encore une chose, ce ressort, a t'il subi un traitement thermique ?
Tout en vous souhaitant une bonne soirée et en espérant une réponse positive, je vous prie d'agréer, monsieur, l'expression de mes meilleures salutations. Poly30

Here is translated version again:

Good evening, Mr Behner.,
Thank you for the information that allowed me to order the rail Hiwin ref: HGR 25, a little smaller but has an affordable price. I will have a second request, very important, regarding the spring; what are its characteristics: wire diameter, total free length, outer diameter. If any time you bought this spring, could you give me a link to order it. One more thing, has this spring been heat treated ?
While wishing you all a pleasant evening and hoping for a positive response, please accept, Sir, the expression of my best regards. Poly30

Drawings of "auto-retract" single point threader

Diamond

Titanium

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Banned

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Aluminum

Aluminum

Plastic

Diamond

Diamond

Plastic

Diamond

Diamond

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