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    Default DRO Supplier UK - Goodwin Technology Ltd

    Hi folk

    Looking to fit a DRO to my Deckel FP2.

    My main system thought is for the Newall System with the DP700 and ‎Spheroysn encoders.

    HOWEVER I came across Goodwin Technology Ltd and they seem to have some good offers and a proven track record ...

    ANYONE had dealings with them?? Good or Bad

    MTIA

    John

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    Not Goodwins John, …………..but I used Allendale / Machine DRO UK <> 8 years back for a Sino (cheaposqueeko) for my Induma and found them fine to deal with Machine DRO | Digital Readout Systems | Encoders | Calipers | CNC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    Not Goodwins John, …………..but I used Allendale / Machine DRO UK <> 8 years back for a Sino (cheaposqueeko) for my Induma and found them fine to deal with Machine DRO | Digital Readout Systems | Encoders | Calipers | CNC
    Interesting, talked to them yesterday (M-DRO) and they should have got back to me mid afternoon with a quote but didn't!

    What have you heard about Goodwins?

    BR

    John

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    Nothing John, ……...have you trawled UK the Model Engineering forums, ...….....IME that world is a lot more outspoken than it once was.

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    Allendale/M-DRO have a very heavy workload at the moment, responding to queries from a show.

    I've got their 1µm magnetic scales on my Beaver milling machine and I'm very happy with them.

    May only comment on Goodwin is that they are selling exactly the same imported glass-scale sensors and display heads that the other 'affordable' vendors are, but their web site shows very little/no useful technical information.

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    I first recall seeing goodwins years ago on ebay, they would get some old clapped out Harrison M series or Colchester, paint it, bolt one of their generic import DROs on it and try and flog it as a "refurbished" machine.

    They might be perfectly fine people to deal with, but I always ignored them after seeing that crap.

    As far as import DROs go my dad and I bought a 3 axis Sino from China through ebay years ago, before they were readily available in this country, to install on an old Beaver turret mill he had. That was around 15 years ago at this point. It was really a decent bit of kit, the scales were nicely finished and the whole thing was pretty good. He sold that mill a couple of years ago, DRO included. It was still working perfectly at the time. He paid very little for it, I can't recall how much, but somewhere around £300 for the whole kit and caboodle. When they started appearing from UK sellers, the prices were inflated as you would expect.

    About a half a dozen or so years ago I bought a DigiMac branded 3 axis unit from I think Poland IIRC, to fit on a little Kearns S type that we use for some second op stuff. The finish on the scales was pretty rough, the reader heads and caps on the ends of the scales were pretty shoddy die cast and I was fairly unimpressed. To it's credit though, it is accurate and has never skipped a beat since I installed it.

    I have never bought any from Allendale, but I have a big old Boko F3 here on the waiting list...

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    I know we shouldn't talk about them here, but like Gregor I can't fault my Sino DRO, at the price it's nicely made, does what it says on the tin (and a lot more I don't use) and switches on and off when I want it to.

    Others I know have had the same results, ….....and several (whom I rate as craftsmen) have openly said that given a ''high class'' machine tool (Deckel / Weiler etc etc etc )they'd ''have to think long and hard'' before spending the extra a ''big name'' DRO costs.

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    Another vote for Allendale / M-DRO.

    Bought a Sino SD2MS 3 axis set from them maybe 12 to 15 years ago for the Bridgeport I'd just picked up. Still going strong. Came with a rewritten, English not Chinglish, manual which was a nice bonus.

    Couple of years down the line I wanted to go 4 axis with a scale on the quill. Bought another scale and one of the LCD display 4 axis boxes they were doing at the time. Having some knowledge of (then) LCD speed, ghosting and contrast issues in those days I visited to get a demo of one. Not super wonderful but maybe liveable with. Went away to think it over and bought a couple of months later. Display on the one I got was not up to scratch in my workshop when I tried it on the existing 3 axis set. Too slow to change and significant ghosting in normal shop light. Allendale gave me full refund including postage without quibbling. Talking to them I got they impression that they were less than happy with QC on those boxes and had already decided to discontinue them. I imagine temperature issues with the display at anything less than nice warm office temperatures.

    Temporarily fitted a BW Electronics pull wire on the quill. Not ideal but I can live with it as the unit came for free (don't ask) and it doesn't get in the way of the micrometer stop like the usual Quillstar and clone horrors. 10 years and counting. Nowt so permanent as a temporary job!

    Now the magnetic scales can be got at reasonable prices I've been looking into two sets for my lathes. Mag scales can be integrated under the cross slide and under the bed shears where such things should be instead of hung outside getting in the way. If I'm going to all that trouble I want a box able to easily do multiple bed and stop functions by dropping the lathe clutch or stopping the motor at the end of the cut. Allendale / M-DRO went to some considerable trouble to try and find something for me, once they had twigged what I wanted, but drew a blank. They do a reader box capable of interfacing 4 scales to a PC so I picked up one of those and shall eventually write a proper, modern DRO set-up, in LabView to run on my ToughBook using that box as the interface. Basically EMI-Mec dragged into the modern era with a few extra tweaks. Almost CNC lite if I add steppers /servos!

    EMS-I seemed pretty clued up when I talked to them and have boxes with a few zero detection outputs which were sort of what I wanted. Maybe enough for me, maybe not, but set up is "clunky".

    Clive

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    Nothing John, ……...have you trawled UK the Model Engineering forums, ...….....IME that world is a lot more outspoken than it once was.
    That's for sure ... People like us getting old and not PC!

    Just seen your second post too ... totally agree IMHO sometimes because our machines are in the higher build quality / more accurate there can be a train of thought to put higher end electronics/tooling with them but in this changing world more expensive is not neccessarily better.

    Sending you pm

    Thanks John

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    Allendale/M-DRO have a very heavy workload at the moment, responding to queries from a show.

    I've got their 1µm magnetic scales on my Beaver milling machine and I'm very happy with them.

    May only comment on Goodwin is that they are selling exactly the same imported glass-scale sensors and display heads that the other 'affordable' vendors are, but their web site shows very little/no useful technical information.
    Hi Mark - Thanks for your comments, just spoken with Goodwin's again and they say they are using the same imported "bits" as others from distant locations but as a family business with few overheads and staff they can be competative with the bigger boys.

    Got my quote from M-DRO this afternoon but wrong items quoted and missing information I'd requested Grrr!

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    I first recall seeing goodwins years ago on ebay, they would get some old clapped out Harrison M series or Colchester, paint it, bolt one of their generic import DROs on it and try and flog it as a "refurbished" machine.

    They might be perfectly fine people to deal with, but I always ignored them after seeing that crap.

    As far as import DROs go my dad and I bought a 3 axis Sino from China through ebay years ago, before they were readily available in this country, to install on an old Beaver turret mill he had. That was around 15 years ago at this point. It was really a decent bit of kit, the scales were nicely finished and the whole thing was pretty good. He sold that mill a couple of years ago, DRO included. It was still working perfectly at the time. He paid very little for it, I can't recall how much, but somewhere around £300 for the whole kit and caboodle. When they started appearing from UK sellers, the prices were inflated as you would expect.

    About a half a dozen or so years ago I bought a DigiMac branded 3 axis unit from I think Poland IIRC, to fit on a little Kearns S type that we use for some second op stuff. The finish on the scales was pretty rough, the reader heads and caps on the ends of the scales were pretty shoddy die cast and I was fairly unimpressed. To it's credit though, it is accurate and has never skipped a beat since I installed it.

    I have never bought any from Allendale, but I have a big old Boko F3 here on the waiting list...
    Hi Gregor - thank you for your input and comments ... always appreciated

    John

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    While discussing my requirements and thoughts with M-DRO and Goodwin's both are offering or suggesting I might consider magnetic readers, something I'd simply not thought of!

    All comments welcomed before I dive into my "Pension pot"

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    I know we shouldn't talk about them here, but like Gregor I can't fault my Sino DRO, at the price it's nicely made, does what it says on the tin (and a lot more I don't use) and switches on and off when I want it to.

    Others I know have had the same results, ….....and several (whom I rate as craftsmen) have openly said that given a ''high class'' machine tool (Deckel / Weiler etc etc etc )they'd ''have to think long and hard'' before spending the extra a ''big name'' DRO costs.
    I also have a S**o on my E**o lathe, It has worked rather well. When first installed, it had a habit of freezing. I cured that by realigning the long scale and no issues since.

    I suspect that most of the Asian DRO's are coming from the same factory with different badges on them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey John View Post
    While discussing my requirements and thoughts with M-DRO and Goodwin's both are offering or suggesting I might consider magnetic readers, something I'd simply not thought of!

    All comments welcomed before I dive into my "Pension pot"

    John
    Actually got a message from Goodwins late this afternoon ...
    "Quote" There is one downside to the magnetic scales and that is the new ones will attract ferrous chips so you would have to wipe them off periodically.

    Do I really want this???

    John

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    Big advantage of magnetic scales is that they are slim and slender. Especially if bought in "tape" form. Read heads are small too although, objectively rather larger than they need be. This lets you put the scales and heads out of the way where they are not exposed to mechanical damage or serious amounts of coolant. For example underneath slides alongside feedscrews is possible on machines of sensible size. The magnetic scales are inherently pretty liquid proof. Not quite up to Newall ball scale standards but far better than optical scales. Generally its the adhesive holding the scale tape to the mount that eventually suffers.

    Magnetic tape systems are inherently inexpensive. The scale itself comes out of the factory on a roll and here is no inherent reason why the read-heads can't be made as a single monolithic hybrid electronics package. Currently the readouts are usually a surface mount pcb but i'm sure that will change. I remember when the magnetic scales first came out. The price was eye watering and they could only be bought as part of a system. Back in the day I wanted to buy around £20,000 worth of naked scales from Renishaw for a Ministry of Defence job at RARDE and they refused point blank to even discuss the order! £500 for similar would be very expensive now! How things change.

    I reckon within the next decade optical scales will disappear. Magnetic will be the norm with Newall ballscales hanging on for "need to survive small nuclear device explosion" type jobs. Unless camera phone imager based systems working off ordinary mechanically printed tapes, like the mylar devices in printers, with repurposed most of a smart phone innards to do the readout take over. Continuing the trend of stupid technological overkill for the specific application using available consumer technology that has been the main feature of this century.

    Far as I'm concerned Sino et al have always been proper industrial kit and appropriate for discussion here. But not low end digital caliper readout on a stick, i-gauging and entry level pull wire systems. Proper industrial pull wire systems did / do exist. Not cheap. I bought some back in the day. Newall + level pricing for not lesser accuracy but longer and I could write my own readout and interface program.

    Clive

    PS Attracting chips is a new one on me. If I recall correctly the net field is tiny so any debris can be brushed aside by the sensor whether ferrous or not. Umpteen alternate poles packed together. Think seriously scaled down cassette tape! Don't recall chip issues with them.
    Last edited by Clive603; 10-26-2019 at 05:31 AM.

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    I'd say the transition to magnetic has already happened. We just ordered a new DMG Mori machine and it has 0.01μm resolution magnetic scales on all axis.

    Magnetic scales have been the defacto standard on CMM's for years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clive603 View Post
    Big advantage of magnetic scales is that they are slim and slender. Especially if bought in "tape" form. Read heads are small too although, objectively rather larger than they need be. This lets you put the scales and heads out of the way where they are not exposed to mechanical damage or serious amounts of coolant. For example underneath slides alongside feedscrews is possible on machines of sensible size. The magnetic scales are inherently pretty liquid proof. Not quite up to Newall ball scale standards but far better than optical scales. Generally its the adhesive holding the scale tape to the mount that eventually suffers.

    Magnetic tape systems are inherently inexpensive. The scale itself comes out of the factory on a roll and here is no inherent reason why the read-heads can't be made as a single monolithic hybrid electronics package. Currently the readouts are usually a surface mount pcb but i'm sure that will change. I remember when the magnetic scales first came out. The price was eye watering and they could only be bought as part of a system. Back in the day I wanted to buy around £20,000 worth of naked scales from Renishaw for a Ministry of Defence job at RARDE and they refused point blank to even discuss the order! £500 for similar would be very expensive now! How things change.

    I reckon within the next decade optical scales will disappear. Magnetic will be the norm with Newall ballscales hanging on for "need to survive small nuclear device explosion" type jobs. Unless camera phone imager based systems working off ordinary mechanically printed tapes, like the mylar devices in printers, with repurposed most of a smart phone innards to do the readout take over. Continuing the trend of stupid technological overkill for the specific application using available consumer technology that has been the main feature of this century.

    Far as I'm concerned Sino et al have always been proper industrial kit and appropriate for discussion here. But not low end digital caliper readout on a stick, i-gauging and entry level pull wire systems. Proper industrial pull wire systems did / do exist. Not cheap. I bought some back in the day. Newall + level pricing for not lesser accuracy but longer and I could write my own readout and interface program.

    Clive

    PS Attracting chips is a new one on me. If I recall correctly the net field is tiny so any debris can be brushed aside by the sensor whether ferrous or not. Umpteen alternate poles packed together. Think seriously scaled down cassette tape! Don't recall chip issues with them.
    Hi Clive

    Thank you for taking the time to explain more ... Just "maybe" food for thought now.

    Certainly could be a blessing on my Hardinge HLV-H ... If I fit a "Normal" reader to the cross slide I cant fit my travelling steady ... but I guess with magnetic I could! (My next task)

    John

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    I'm pretty sure that a mag scale can be fitted under the cross slide on the HLV and HLV-H

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    I'm pretty sure that a mag scale can be fitted under the cross slide on the HLV and HLV-H
    Now that REALLY would be GOOD!

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    Well after much debate and head scratching I've elected to go for and ordered a Newall DP700 with Microsyn 5 Encoders.

    I'd initially ruled Newall out on cost but after contacting MSC J&L they got me a really good deal and of course a 5 year guarantee to boot.

    I'll post some images as I go through the fitting process.

    John


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