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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by tnmgcarbide View Post
    if the flange and shaft fit i wouldn't be too critical of 2hp vs 3hp . in the 90's , there were many machines
    boasting optimistic hp ratings which included "peak"
    and "15 minute duty cycles" . even a real BPT today isn't completely innocent of the practice .

    putting a slightly smaller hp motor might be to advantage- less wear and stress on an old
    machine , which was already junk the day it left the factory .
    I may still go that way. Not sure yet. It is a beat up old machine, no doubt about that. But, it serves our meager needs. The students spend 95% of there time working with 1x1 and 1x2 aluminum tubing for their robots. Mostly rivet and bearing holes. Nothing fancy. Its most useful feature is the long x travel.

    I have a '64 Bridgeport with a 1HP motor. I can bog it down it I try, but it not usually an issue. Going to a smaller motor wouldn't be an a problem.

    I had hoped that I would rebuild the head. Unlike Bridgeports though, there are no / very few spare parts. MSC does have a new motor for $1,250 though! At this point I'm hoping I can keep it going for a couple more seasons while we raise the funds for something better.

    The variable speed drive is certainly whacky in its design. There is a lot of slop between the pulley and the shaft. It seems to be more than just wear. At some point since '92, the design changed. It may be that the machine has a mix of new and old parts.

    shaft-sleeve.jpg

    The few thou runout on the shaft is nothing compared to those splines.

    Then here is this weirdness. The splined sleeve can move up and down shaft. The spring cap can't seat fully. I could be missing a spacer. I'll probably make one so that the splined sleeve can not move.

    spring-cap.jpg

    I can't fathom the purpose for the recesses in the shaft.

    shaft-recesses.jpg

    Maybe there is a purpose for having play in the pulley as it moves up and down the splined sleeve? I wouldn't think so.

    Thanks,

    Andy

  2. #22
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by ariyama View Post
    I had hoped that I would rebuild the head. Unlike Bridgeports though, there are no / very few spare parts. MSC does have a new motor for $1,250 though! At this point I'm hoping I can keep it going for a couple more seasons while we raise the funds for something better.



    Thanks,

    Andy
    That makes my $300 N.O.S. motor look pretty good
    Ted

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    The shaft is toast, time for a new motor. To bad you bought a new pulley, you could have saved the old one by making a steel ring and pressing it on, as long as the bore is good.
    That's an excellent suggestion. My big Webb mill had developed a weak spot behind the key on one of the Reeves Drive pulleys. Rather than replace it, I made a steel ring that was a plug fit. I secured it with three socket head grub screws. It's been running that way for 8 years.

    I can only imagine what MSC would want for one of those pulleys since they took over Enco.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails machinery-webb-009.jpg  
    Last edited by Newman109; 02-07-2020 at 01:11 PM.

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    Similar type of damage to the upper spindle shaft bearing journal. Bearing had spun in place scoring the journal. Removed the upper shaft and turned the hard surface with ceramic insert. Calculated the diameter with 0.030" of Rulan way liner applied( 0.015" thick). Made a clamp fixture with a bore to that size. Saw cut for mounting to the journal. After epoxy cure finish turn the journal for bearing fit.
    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyanidekid View Post
    haha! how COULD the bore be any good?? virtually impossible.
    Yep, another x spert, where x is the unknown quantity and a spert is a drip under pressure! I just rebuilt the drive on a Webb mill, the plastic bush the shiv slides on was hammered and it was cracked at the keyway. I removed the plastic bushing, the bore was pristeen. I made a ring and pressed it on, replaced the plastic bush and it runs dead true. the vari speed drive works great and it runs dead quiet.

  6. Likes Newman109, jhruska liked this post
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    Quote Originally Posted by ariyama View Post
    I may still go that way. Not sure yet. It is a beat up old machine, no doubt about that. But, it serves our meager needs. The students spend 95% of there time working with 1x1 and 1x2 aluminum tubing for their robots. Mostly rivet and bearing holes. Nothing fancy. Its most useful feature is the long x travel.

    I have a '64 Bridgeport with a 1HP motor. I can bog it down it I try, but it not usually an issue. Going to a smaller motor wouldn't be an a problem.

    I had hoped that I would rebuild the head. Unlike Bridgeports though, there are no / very few spare parts. MSC does have a new motor for $1,250 though! At this point I'm hoping I can keep it going for a couple more seasons while we raise the funds for something better.

    The variable speed drive is certainly whacky in its design. There is a lot of slop between the pulley and the shaft. It seems to be more than just wear. At some point since '92, the design changed. It may be that the machine has a mix of new and old parts.

    shaft-sleeve.jpg

    The few thou runout on the shaft is nothing compared to those splines.

    Then here is this weirdness. The splined sleeve can move up and down shaft. The spring cap can't seat fully. I could be missing a spacer. I'll probably make one so that the splined sleeve can not move.

    spring-cap.jpg

    I can't fathom the purpose for the recesses in the shaft.

    shaft-recesses.jpg

    Maybe there is a purpose for having play in the pulley as it moves up and down the splined sleeve? I wouldn't think so.

    Thanks,

    Andy
    The recesses in the shaft are from wear, look inside the spline part that goes there, 2 diameters that mate the worn areas on the shaft and a relieved area in between. you should be able to get the spline plastic part, that will tighten up the shiv a lot.

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    I have this exact model # mill. I was having problems changing speeds the lower shive was binding on the splined motor shaft. I ordered a new splined shaft and brass bushing for the shive. (No plastic parts on mine)
    I talked and showed a local old guy that repairs Bridgeport heads the parts i got from MSC. He said they were not machined correctly as the 2 parts would not slide smoothly together. He recommend i gently file and stone both parts until the slide together very smoothly on all of the splines. So i spend almost 2 hours filing stoning and polishing both parts until i could rotate each spline the flip the bushing the other way and and index each spline till it was ultra smooth. Then i sprayed both parts with
    Black ice contact cleaner & graphite powder lubricant. Several coats letting them dry between coats. Wipe off excess and reassembled. Now it works beautifully changes speeds so smooth. I am glad i spent the extra time paying attention to detail it really payed off. It was the third time taking it apart it would work for a few months then bind up again. Now its been 6 months and no issues. I hope this helps good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gofast22 View Post
    I have this exact model # mill. I was having problems changing speeds the lower shive was binding on the splined motor shaft. I ordered a new splined shaft and brass bushing for the shive. (No plastic parts on mine)
    I talked and showed a local old guy that repairs Bridgeport heads the parts i got from MSC. He said they were not machined correctly as the 2 parts would not slide smoothly together. He recommend i gently file and stone both parts until the slide together very smoothly on all of the splines. So i spend almost 2 hours filing stoning and polishing both parts until i could rotate each spline the flip the bushing the other way and and index each spline till it was ultra smooth. Then i sprayed both parts with
    Black ice contact cleaner & graphite powder lubricant. Several coats letting them dry between coats. Wipe off excess and reassembled. Now it works beautifully changes speeds so smooth. I am glad i spent the extra time paying attention to detail it really payed off. It was the third time taking it apart it would work for a few months then bind up again. Now its been 6 months and no issues. I hope this helps good luck.

    I'm glad that worked out for you,

    Were you able to get ENCO parts from MSC? If so, were they expensive?

    Thanks in advance.

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman109 View Post
    I'm glad that worked out for you,

    Were you able to get ENCO parts from MSC? If so, were they expensive?

    Thanks in advance.
    Sorry for not replying I've been on the road and attending Richard King's machine rebuilding class in Texas. I was able to get some parts from MSC,but its hit and miss. They are not cheap. My splined sleeve is rather abused,and is quite sloppy on the shaft. In fact, I suspect that the sleeve may be incorrect for the my generation of the mill. They do have a new one, but I am hesitant to buy it, as I think it may be for a newer model. I suspect that ENCO made modifications over the years, but didn't change the model or part numbers. My manual seems to be for a newer version.

    Enco does not have the plastic insert for mine. I think I will model it up in Solidworks and 3D print a new one in nylon.

    A new 3HP motor is on the order of $1,250.

    Andy

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    Quote Originally Posted by ariyama View Post
    Sorry for not replying I've been on the road and attending Richard King's machine rebuilding class in Texas. I was able to get some parts from MSC,but its hit and miss. They are not cheap. My splined sleeve is rather abused,and is quite sloppy on the shaft. In fact, I suspect that the sleeve may be incorrect for the my generation of the mill. They do have a new one, but I am hesitant to buy it, as I think it may be for a newer model. I suspect that ENCO made modifications over the years, but didn't change the model or part numbers. My manual seems to be for a newer version.

    Enco does not have the plastic insert for mine. I think I will model it up in Solidworks and 3D print a new one in nylon.

    A new 3HP motor is on the order of $1,250.

    Andy
    Reminder: N.O.S. motor with a little less horse power for $300...

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    Yep, another x spert, where x is the unknown quantity and a spert is a drip under pressure! I just rebuilt the drive on a Webb mill, the plastic bush the shiv slides on was hammered and it was cracked at the keyway. I removed the plastic bushing, the bore was pristeen. I made a ring and pressed it on, replaced the plastic bush and it runs dead true. the vari speed drive works great and it runs dead quiet.
    did you miss post #4?

  13. #32
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    Hey Andy,

    Nice little project. Here are some observations...and my opinion from a guy on a computer screen another country away

    Motor.

    the shaft has been damaged from the pulley, hence the tapper. If i was to repair it i would machine it down, weld up the keyway and then weld the shaft up. I would tig weld it with some regular tig rod. Working my way around in circles. Then i would build it up more I would have the arbor out of the housing and the bearings removed as you will have to true up the bearing profile to ensure it is running true. The shaft will most likely have moved and that would be a good way to combat that. Machine the shaft to size and then re-machine the keyway but i would clock it differently if that has no negative affects on the operation. If there were cracks in the original keyway then the welded up pocket will help to mitigate that.

    the pulley.

    I would scrap it. However if i HAD to fix it. I would bore out the hub. Machine a new hub with lots of area. A light press fit and i would pin it to the original pulley with set screws. I would then true everything up in the lathe and machine the bore to the motor's shaft size plus 0.0005 to 0.001 or as close as you can get it to that. Finally a skim cut in the belt grove to ensure everything is running true (before removing it from the lathe). You would be surprised how often pulleys are really worn and not true any more.

    Judging from your attitude you could do these repairs and it would work fine for you.

    Best of luck and don't forget to share pictures of the completed project.

    Rob

    P.S. I agree that someone took an angle grinder to the shaft.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBLatheman View Post
    Reminder: N.O.S. motor with a little less horse power for $300...
    but where is the fun in this? I mean, not like it's is a disposable 10 or 20 hp vector duty motor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBLatheman View Post
    Reminder: N.O.S. motor with a little less horse power for $300...
    I haven't forgotten! Our coach knows a guy that knows a guy that might be able to advise me on the shaft repair. This weekend is our first competition, so a bit busy. I think I can do the repair, but more than once I've overestimated my abilities Hope to make more progress in the coming week.

    Thanks,

    Andy

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    Quote Originally Posted by spkrman15 View Post
    Hey Andy,

    Nice little project. Here are some observations...and my opinion from a guy on a computer screen another country away

    Motor.

    the shaft has been damaged from the pulley, hence the tapper. If i was to repair it i would machine it down, weld up the keyway and then weld the shaft up. I would tig weld it with some regular tig rod. Working my way around in circles. Then i would build it up more I would have the arbor out of the housing and the bearings removed as you will have to true up the bearing profile to ensure it is running true. The shaft will most likely have moved and that would be a good way to combat that. Machine the shaft to size and then re-machine the keyway but i would clock it differently if that has no negative affects on the operation. If there were cracks in the original keyway then the welded up pocket will help to mitigate that.

    the pulley.

    I would scrap it. However if i HAD to fix it. I would bore out the hub. Machine a new hub with lots of area. A light press fit and i would pin it to the original pulley with set screws. I would then true everything up in the lathe and machine the bore to the motor's shaft size plus 0.0005 to 0.001 or as close as you can get it to that. Finally a skim cut in the belt grove to ensure everything is running true (before removing it from the lathe). You would be surprised how often pulleys are really worn and not true any more.

    Judging from your attitude you could do these repairs and it would work fine for you.

    Best of luck and don't forget to share pictures of the completed project.

    Rob

    P.S. I agree that someone took an angle grinder to the shaft.
    Rob,

    Thanks. I've seen videos of removing the shaft and making a new one, and of welding it up and turning it. Your approach sounds good. I still need to mock up a shaft and practice the weld build up and keyway fill in.

    I have a replacement pulley, so I'll scrap the old one. I will post more pictures as I progress.

    Thanks,

    Andy

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    Quote Originally Posted by gofast22 View Post
    I have this exact model # mill. I was having problems changing speeds the lower shive was binding on the splined motor shaft. I ordered a new splined shaft and brass bushing for the shive. (No plastic parts on mine)
    I talked and showed a local old guy that repairs Bridgeport heads the parts i got from MSC. He said they were not machined correctly as the 2 parts would not slide smoothly together. He recommend i gently file and stone both parts until the slide together very smoothly on all of the splines. So i spend almost 2 hours filing stoning and polishing both parts until i could rotate each spline the flip the bushing the other way and and index each spline till it was ultra smooth. Then i sprayed both parts with
    Black ice contact cleaner & graphite powder lubricant. Several coats letting them dry between coats. Wipe off excess and reassembled. Now it works beautifully changes speeds so smooth. I am glad i spent the extra time paying attention to detail it really payed off. It was the third time taking it apart it would work for a few months then bind up again. Now its been 6 months and no issues. I hope this helps good luck.
    gofast22,

    Thanks. That splined shaft and it plastic insert is my main worry right now, well, besides the motor shaft. Our machine was really noisy from the moment we got it. From a google search at the time, it seemed that these were normally loud. Now I have my doubts. I think it was going its death rattle and I didn't recognize it. Hopefully when we bring it back from the dead it will be quieter!

    Andy
    Last edited by ariyama; 02-29-2020 at 11:06 PM.


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