Which epoxy for a cover coat - steel to aluminum Hydrostat transmission?
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    Default Which epoxy for a cover coat - steel to aluminum Hydrostat transmission?

    Which epoxy for a cover coat - steel to aluminum Hydrostat transmission?

    I need an epoxy to try and seal the steel axle tube to the aluminum pig/hydrostat on the 1996 Toro Groundsmaster 223D.

    When they make these they heat the aluminum housing and slide the axle tube in. There is no way to pull the axle tube out coat it and re-install it.

    I have to coat the outside of the joint.

    The axle tube is about 2 1/2" O.D.

    I heard it's not an all that uncommon problem for the hydrostat to leak around the axle tube. It was suggested that I try epoxy.

    I was planning to use some anchor set that I have here. But that stuff is old and I was wondering if there was a better product

    Loctite recommended either 5600 silicone - 7 day full cure, good to 300 degrees or 4090 epoxy good to 300 degrees - 24 hour cure
    Last edited by jrsavoie; 06-13-2018 at 10:44 AM. Reason: Adding Loctite info

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    Thin epoxy with acetone and invert part do it is funnel and pour thinned stuff in and allow it to wick in.

    Needs to be cleaned well with acetone first.

    Using air pressure to assist may help if you can clamp it to something to seal it up.

    Photos help


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk

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    Coating something with epoxy to stop a leak?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    Coating something with epoxy to stop a leak?
    Yes. That is the plan and about the only option outside of a new transmission.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Quiring View Post
    Thin epoxy with acetone and invert part do it is funnel and pour thinned stuff in and allow it to wick in.

    Needs to be cleaned well with acetone first.

    Using air pressure to assist may help if you can clamp it to something to seal it up.

    Photos help


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
    Very hard to get to. I am not going to disassemble, so the joint is vertical. It would be much better if the joint was turned 90 degrees so I had the possibility of pouring something thin around the axle. Time does not allow for that right now.

    I thought about something like the epoxy injection the use for concrete wall repair.

    I have the old concrete anchor set that is used to glue steel concrete anchors in concrete.

    Lords said I would have to use a primer to use that, but they had no recommendation for a primer.

    My plan for clean up is to spray Acetone on and use a clean stainless brush.

    I have been using CRC electronic cleaner. It drys very fast. But Acetone has been recommended.

    I will go out and try to get a picture

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    Not sure I have a good grasp on how epoxy will adhere to the shaft and not the housing. If I understand correctly you are trying to create a slightly bigger diameter on the shaft to seal. Does this have any type of neoprene seal involved? I would consider using what used to be called a sav-a-seal. Super thin band of stainless that slides right over the shaft.

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    It's called redi sleeve.

    Redi-Sleeves | The Timken Company

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hodge View Post
    Not sure I have a good grasp on how epoxy will adhere to the shaft and not the housing. If I understand correctly you are trying to create a slightly bigger diameter on the shaft to seal. Does this have any type of neoprene seal involved? I would consider using what used to be called a sav-a-seal. Super thin band of stainless that slides right over the shaft.
    It is the axle shaft housing that slides into the Aluminum pumpkin. It is a press fit - no seals.

    They heat the aluminum housing up and slide/press the axle tube in.

    It is leaking around the axle tube.

    Somebody suggested a polyurethane product like 3M windshield sealer.

    I am going to try giving 3m a call. A lot of companies do not have much tech support these days

    3M said that the poly would not hold up to the oil and the up to 250 degrees of the hydrostatic transmission. They recommended acrylic epoxy DP8010NS
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails axle-1996-toro-223d.jpg  

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    Why is it always this way ?

    Someone asks for advice, get's several good answers, and then starts with the
    additional information (that should have been presented in the original request)

    The "yabutts" as Forrest called them.

    Not wanting to partially dis-assemble (to get the leak really clean) is going to
    lead to failure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Why is it always this way ?

    Someone asks for advice, get's several good answers, and then starts with the
    additional information (that should have been presented in the original request)

    The "yabutts" as Forrest called them.

    Not wanting to partially dis-assemble (to get the leak really clean) is going to
    lead to failure.
    Maybe he edited it but his original post does say that it’s a press fit and he cant take it apart. I know what you are saying but it just doesn’t seem to be the case how I read it. Also seems like the op had his mind set on what he was doing before he started.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianagos View Post
    Maybe he edited it but his original post does say that it’s a press fit and he cant take it apart. I know what you are saying but it just doesn’t seem to be the case how I read it. Also seems like the op had his mind set on what he was doing before he started.
    I know what he wrote, and I understand completely about the press fit tube.

    Op doesn't want to remove form vehicle, drain oil, or expend any work
    to "fix the problem once and for all".

    So buy more oil, buy stock in Royal Dutch Shell (RDS-a on the NYSA)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hodge View Post
    It's called redi sleeve.

    Redi-Sleeves | The Timken Company
    I've used those before on the other end of the axle - on the axle shaft. Not the thing for this application

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    The oil is drained. My mind is set if I can find a product that works. I know epoxies have come a long way.

    I was also told by the Toro service tech that this was a method that has been used successfully in the past. He did not have a product to recommend.

    I was originally wondering if there was a product like the epoxy injection for concrete walls. That I would actually stand a chance of getting in between the axle tube and the aluminum housing.

    I am not exactly sure how the axle tubes were installed other than I was told they heat the aluminum housing and install the tubes - no seals

    I suspicion that they may actually have been spun welded in.

    I am also going to call Loctite and westsystem.com
    Last edited by jrsavoie; 06-13-2018 at 10:47 AM. Reason: spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Why is it always this way ?

    Someone asks for advice, get's several good answers, and then starts with the
    additional information (that should have been presented in the original request)

    The "yabutts" as Forrest called them.

    Not wanting to partially dis-assemble (to get the leak really clean) is going to
    lead to failure.
    MaYBE YOU NEED TO WORK ON YOUR READING AND COMPREHENSION SKILLS. I didn't see any new info added - other than I was calling 3M.

    Everything was in the original post. I did edit because coat was spelled caot. I'm old and fat fingered. I tend to make a lot of little mistakes typing. Like hitting the caps lock about every time I hit the a.

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    If the fit between the tube and housing is close I'd be tempted to use thread sealant rather than epoxy. The green (wicking grade) Loctite works quite well for that if you can wash away any oil first. The stuff is so thin it draws in by capillary action. I would suggest using alcohol to clean first, preferably squirted in with something like a syringe. Allow plenty of time for the alcohol to flash off before adding the Loctite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    If the fit between the tube and housing is close I'd be tempted to use thread sealant rather than epoxy. The green (wicking grade) Loctite works quite well for that if you can wash away any oil first. The stuff is so thin it draws in by capillary action. I would suggest using alcohol to clean first, preferably squirted in with something like a syringe. Allow plenty of time for the alcohol to flash off before adding the Loctite.
    Maybe better than acetone you might try spraying brake cleaner in.
    Green loctite sounds like a good idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianagos View Post
    Maybe better than acetone you might try spraying brake cleaner in.
    Green loctite sounds like a good idea.
    Yes on brake parts cleaner or maybe MEK with a syringe. Alcohol will not dissolve lube oils.
    Y

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    If the fit between the tube and housing is close I'd be tempted to use thread sealant rather than epoxy. The green (wicking grade) Loctite works quite well for that if you can wash away any oil first. The stuff is so thin it draws in by capillary action. I would suggest using alcohol to clean first, preferably squirted in with something like a syringe. Allow plenty of time for the alcohol to flash off before adding the Loctite.
    Do you think warming the hydrostat case with a turbo torch - Mapp gas would help wick the loctite in?

    Would I need to clean the Green Loctite off before I applied the 3M, Loctite or JB Weld? I am assuming I would, but I've been wrong before.

    The axle tube is tight in the housing, but apparently not tight enough.


    Sitting over the winter it leaked about 1 pint.

    I have noticed it leaking a lot worse lately and I am sure it leaks more when it is up to temp.

    I have some recommendations from Locite and 3M that I will post up after I talk to JB weld.

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    Still assembled so step outside the box...

    Look for the vent and get a vacuum pump.

    Place crankcase under a vacuum and problem solved....

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrsavoie View Post
    Do you think warming the hydrostat case with a turbo torch - Mapp gas would help wick the loctite in?

    Would I need to clean the Green Loctite off before I applied the 3M, Loctite or JB Weld? I am assuming I would, but I've been wrong before.

    The axle tube is tight in the housing, but apparently not tight enough.


    Sitting over the winter it leaked about 1 pint.

    I have noticed it leaking a lot worse lately and I am sure it leaks more when it is up to temp.

    I have some recommendations from Locite and 3M that I will post up after I talk to JB weld.
    Sounds like a perfect place to use the green Loctite. They call it wicking grade because it is thin enough to use on fasteners that are already installed. I've flowed it into cracks to tighten up poor fits. If you can flush the oil out first it should work fine, just let it cure (preferably overnight) before putting oil back in. I had a tiny leak in an installed compressed air system that is now sealed without having to disassemble it. Just wipe off any on the external surfaces (for cosmetic reasons) while it is still liquid.

    You shouldn't need to add epoxy over it but if you do decide to use epoxy I recommend JB Weld. I have one of the old Topsider manually pumped vacuum oil extractors that started leaking air around the handle rivets after some idiot (me) accidentally leaned on it while it was under vacuum. I degreased it, sanded off the paint around the area and smeared on JB Weld. Not very pretty looking but it will still hold vacuum. It's only kept around now as a backup because I built a compressed air operated oil extractors out of an old industrial fire extinguisher. You could stand on that one without collapsing it. (The old Topsider units were basically one of the old domed steel fuel cans with a vacuum pump attached - not very thick steel.)

    PS: There used to be an old product (Thextonite?) that was a gas tank sealer stick and I know guys who externally sealed oil leaks by dipping one in gasoline and rubbing it over the leak.

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