Ever get a bad batch of bandsaw blades?

Joe Miranda · Aug 21, 2015

I have had trouble a couple of times with what I believe to be bad batches of bandsaw blades. I usually order 6 or 10 at a time. Both times this has happened it has been Morse blades (so not off brand). Today I was cutting some 1018. My cutting speed was 80-90 sfm - so pretty conservative. The diameter of the bar was 3-1/2" and I was about 3/8" into the cut when I heard a tooth let go and it stripped a pretty good section of the blade. I stopped, moved the workpiece to a fresh place, took the coolant blocks off and cleaned them and made sure everything looked good and started the cut again. Cut fine for about 1/2" (except for the stripped section which I was babying through the cut) and same thing - a tooth let go and it stripped another foot of blade.

Got a new blade (same batch) moved the workpiece to a fresh place to start the cut - half an inch away - turned the speed down to 60 sfm and started again - same thing. Lost a tooth, stripped another section. Now I'm mad. These blades ain't cheap - 1" wide x .035 x 10' 6" long - about $40 ea or so. That was the second blade in the box so I'm thinking just maybe I had two bad blades. Switched blades again, took the 3 1/2" bar out and put in a bar of 2" dia 1018 and tried again. I made it through the cut but it did not sound good - sounded like it was on the verge of loosing another tooth.

Plain carbon raker blades. Ever have this?

Mtndew · Aug 21, 2015

We always buy Lenox blades. Can't recall ever getting a bad batch. And yes they aren't cheap.

tdmidget · Aug 21, 2015

Sounds like to fine a pitch.

moonlight machine · Aug 21, 2015

Don't waste money on carbon steel blades, Lenox Bimetal is the one to use. I use a 6-10 vari pitch, seems like a good all around blade for me.

Joe Miranda · Aug 21, 2015

Thanks for the replies gentlemen. It sounds like I may be making the switch to Lenox. Are you guys using them in your verticals as well?

Mtndew · Aug 21, 2015

Joe Miranda said:
Are you guys using them in your verticals as well?

We do, but obviously it's a different pitch and width. And our vertical is mainly used for oddball stuff that our horizontal can't hold onto.

metlmunchr · Aug 21, 2015

Joe, someone is screwing you on the price of those blades. I've got 2 saws that use 1" blades, one @ 10'-10" and one at 11'=6". Local saw shop handles Morse blade stock. His current price on variable pitch bimetal blades is $44 to $45 buying one at a time, and about $40 if I buy 5 at once. Been about a year since I bought a carbon blade from him, but at that time he was about $25 for one blade, also Morse.

You didn't mention what pitch you're using, but I'd tend to agree with tdmidget that it sounds like a case of too fine pitch. Chips pack in the small gullets as the blade passes thru the material, and one glob of chips eventually jams in the cut and removes the tooth.

Losing teeth is pretty much always due to either a too fine pitch or failure to properly break in a new bimetal blade. Discounting of course the idiots who stick a piece of angle in the vise, legs down, and drop the blade across the corner of the stock.

gbent · Aug 21, 2015

You went the wrong way with your blade speed. Put on a new blade and set the speed at 120 SFM (for carbon blades). Set your down feed about 1/2 normal speed. Cut a dozen or two pieces to break in your blade. Now you should be good to go at normal speeds and feeds.

sfriedberg · Aug 21, 2015

Yeah, you didn't mention a blade break-in period, so I'm going to assume you just started up the replacements at the standard in feed. Do like gbent said. Consult the blade maker's recommendations if you don't trust our word.

tnmgcarbide · Aug 21, 2015

more likely a setup issue than faulty blades , the op doesn't bother to disclose the make/model of saw -
or the pitch of this 1" ,126" blade -

anyway , improper feeds/speeds and #TPI ,or not breaking in the band( very fine feed for the first few cuts ) will
do more to affect stripping teeth than the carbon/bimetal debate . & make sure your blade brushes and
coolant stream are doing their job properly.

unless it's high production , repetetive cuts .... or a volume of stainless or toolsteel ..... i seldom bother with hss bandsaw bands . i like Nicholson ,Starrett , Simonds hardback hcs bands . they take welds nicely and i can usually get 250' for about $90-100 . that's $4 a blade .

Mike C. · Aug 21, 2015

Been running Wikus blades in the last two shops with good results. Thought we had a batch of bad blades, but the welder had been "working" on the saw and turned the blade speed up to about 350ft/min. They didn't last long that way.

Only way to cheat a big part with too fine a blade is lots of coolant and feed it super fine so the chips are very small and can wash through the cut instead of packing up the gullets. Takes forever, but it works.

dkmc · Aug 21, 2015

#2 for Wikus....did the Starrett, Simonds, and Lennox thing.
All crap IMO compared to Wikus.
You can actually hear the difference, and feel it (lack of any vibration).

adama · Aug 22, 2015

IMHO you guys liking Lennox would do real well to try the Amada blades. They seam to really deliver life wise compared to a lot of the others.

Don't get me wrong, starret and Lennox are ok, just IME the amadas out cut them and are still cheap, Think we pay under £18 for a 108" long 1" blade of our chosen TPI, all be it buying 5 at a time, but 5 last us a good year+ cutting one hell of a lot of mixed stuff from thin to large solids and every cross section of material possible + plenty of odd stainless of all grades.

gwilson · Aug 22, 2015

some years ago I bought a roll of Morse blades that cut just terribly. I don't know what was wrong with this roll,but I'll never buy Morse again.

Joe Miranda · Aug 22, 2015

Thanks gentlemen. It's a 10 pitch blade and I had a very light feed for break in - so no - that was not it. It has been a couple of years since the last time this happenened so it is not in our approach or process. Thanks gwilson - it sounds like there may be a quality issue.

I am wondering how they heat treat and temper the blades after cutting and setting the teeth. As I look at the blades, you can definitely see "stripes" from blue to purple from the heat treat and temper. And the areas are not gradual in blending from one to the other but they are very distinct color bands. I am wondering if it is possible that they somehow had their equipment set for a different width blade and it tempered the wrong area instead of the teeth so that the teeth were harder than they should have been. That's kinda how it cut.

dkmc · Aug 22, 2015

Joe Miranda said:
Thanks gentlemen. It's a 10 pitch blade

What saw brand model do you have?

I have seen some saws that sound like Jack Benny playing
the violin if you use a straight pitch blade on them.
Any saw I think can benefit from a vari-pitch blade, and
Bi-metal as opposed to carbon.

I think your sawing world would change drastically if you went to a Wikus 8-10 Bi-metal blade, or one of appropriate tooth count for your job.
And even funnier.....the price may be the same or slightly lower than what you say you've been paying for the crap blades.

gbent · Aug 22, 2015

Joe, IMO the higher surface speed is more important for blade break in than the light feed.

sdugan · Nov 19, 2015

as others have stated....they are 100% right...stay away from Carbon blades...Bi-Metal M-42 will be a night and day difference to what you're used to. Let me know if your interested in trying one.

Joe Miranda · Jan 8, 2018

Was sawing some 3" square stock today and I remembered this thread and wanted to report back to close it in case anybody searches it up in the future.

Like I said, I had been using Morse carbon flex raker blades for years (like over 15). A couple of times it would seem as though we would get a bad batch (losing teeth for no apparent reason). Even had the local supplier bring in a Morse rep who swore up and down that their quality control is so rigorous and meticulous that it couldn't possibly be bad blades (even though he watched the sawing operation and could make no substantial recommendations to change or improve anything).

At the suggestion of several of you here, I contacted another supply house and switched to Lenox (Classic Welded variable pitch). That was going on 3 years ago and we have never had a repeat issue - as in never.

Coincidental? You decide. I like the mantra that if it ain't broke don't fix it - so they work for me. And everybody here is in agreement that they are much more consistent and longer lasting blades. I won't go back to Morse.

DMF_TomB · Jan 8, 2018

Joe Miranda said:
I have had trouble a couple of times with what I believe to be bad batches of bandsaw blades. I usually order 6 or 10 at a time. Both times this has happened it has been Morse blades (so not off brand). Today I was cutting some 1018. My cutting speed was 80-90 sfm - so pretty conservative. The diameter of the bar was 3-1/2" and I was about 3/8" into the cut when I heard a tooth let go and it stripped a pretty good section of the blade. I stopped, moved the workpiece to a fresh place, took the coolant blocks off and cleaned them and made sure everything looked good and started the cut again. Cut fine for about 1/2" (except for the stripped section which I was babying through the cut) and same thing - a tooth let go and it stripped another foot of blade.

Got a new blade (same batch) moved the workpiece to a fresh place to start the cut - half an inch away - turned the speed down to 60 sfm and started again - same thing. Lost a tooth, stripped another section. Now I'm mad. These blades ain't cheap - 1" wide x .035 x 10' 6" long - about $40 ea or so. That was the second blade in the box so I'm thinking just maybe I had two bad blades. Switched blades again, took the 3 1/2" bar out and put in a bar of 2" dia 1018 and tried again. I made it through the cut but it did not sound good - sounded like it was on the verge of loosing another tooth.

Plain carbon raker blades. Ever have this?

.
.
could be bad blades or could be you hit a hard spot. big piece of slag will wipe out any tool. some metal bars are poor quality
.
i see often in cast iron castings. i have seen in steel too especially structural steel like A36
.
no warning can be machining quite for hours and bam in a millisecond tool breaks. even a grain of rice size hard spot of slag can cause problems

Ever get a bad batch of bandsaw blades?

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