Favorite hold down clamps for a small sine plate?
Close
Login to Your Account
Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New Jersey
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default Favorite hold down clamps for a small sine plate?

    Bought a 6" sine plate recently and I'm realizing that when utilizing a typical step-clamp setup that I will find that gravity has become my enemy when I do a production run.

    What are your favorite hold downs for sine plates? Google/Mcmaster/etc have not been particularly helpful here.

    Thank you
    Brian

  2. Likes adh2000 liked this post
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Indiana
    Posts
    12,836
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    665
    Likes (Received)
    3816

    Default

    I have a Derbyshire Micromill with a tiny table. I bought some Proxxon vises and clamps to use with it. The clamps are probably small enough to use on a 6" sine plate if you have tapped holes. All the Proxxon tooling I bought is nice quality and came in neat wood boxes. Some was made in Germany and some in India. The Indian stuff was as good as I could ask, so they must have high standards.

    https://www.amazon.com/Proxxon-24256...JXKE1JXPP0BJ5G

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Larry

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    4,969
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    174
    Likes (Received)
    1518

    Default

    You gotta love those Amazon suppliers; they give you one, just one, of the dimensions of the BOX that the clamps come in, but nothing on the clamps themselves. Perhaps they are great clamps, but how can you tell? I would go to a supplier that is in the machining business and not an Amazon junkie.

    But I know where to go to get a 3.7", 9cm box. BTW, 9 cm is 3.54". Another "confidence builder".



    Quote Originally Posted by L Vanice View Post
    I have a Derbyshire Micromill with a tiny table. I bought some Proxxon vises and clamps to use with it. The clamps are probably small enough to use on a 6" sine plate if you have tapped holes. All the Proxxon tooling I bought is nice quality and came in neat wood boxes. Some was made in Germany and some in India. The Indian stuff was as good as I could ask, so they must have high standards.

    https://www.amazon.com/Proxxon-24256...JXKE1JXPP0BJ5G

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Larry

  5. Likes 4GSR, GregSY liked this post
  6. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    26,871
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8412

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BHolcombe View Post
    Bought a 6" sine plate recently and I'm realizing that when utilizing a typical step-clamp setup that I will find that gravity has become my enemy when I do a production run.

    What are your favorite hold downs for sine plates? Google/Mcmaster/etc have not been particularly helpful here.

    Thank you
    Brian
    Gravity isn't the most communicative-passionate of wimmin, sore consistent and sneaky-patient, rather.. But she WAS trying to hint at sumthin' not exactly analmystical.

    If you are doing a "production" run, the sine plate or sine bar was only utilized to make the fixture accurately, set a tilt-table accurately, or arrange a stack of ignorant drops "just so" and clamped for dear life, red blood, and Old Glory.

    I'd no more run a JOB, even a onesie, DIRECTLY ON a sine plate than use a micrometer as a Cee clamp, Vernier Caliper as an open end wrench, or cherished Dearborn Gage blocks for shimming Rex-95's in a 4-Way.

    Then again, I'm obsolete.

    Pre-date the everything-is-a-consumable era, high-precision measuring tools included.

    Tilt tables exist. They have ignorant Tee-slots. All-else should be obvious.

  7. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New Jersey
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default

    Thanks for the replies.

    Thermite, thank you for this information and forgive my ignorance please. I've been under the assumption that sine plates were commonly used for light milling and grinding operations.

    This machine is not taking a heavy cut by any means, but if it's proper to use a tilt table I will buy one of those. I am happy to confess my ignorance of fixturing for angles on a fixed machine (the machine does not tilt).

    Until now I've worked at typical angles, or I've worked in non-critical angles on an adjustable machine, and so I have either used fixturing devices for the typical angles (I have sine jaws for my vise) or I have simply titled the machine to a sliding bevel for angles that are not extremely important.

  8. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    4,637
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4244
    Likes (Received)
    2798

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BHolcombe View Post
    Thanks for the replies.

    Thermite, thank you for this information and forgive my ignorance please. I've been under the assumption that sine plates were commonly used for light milling and grinding operations.
    Nothing wrong with using them for milling.
    Would some angled parallels work better? Or do you need a compound angle?

  9. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New Jersey
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default

    The issue I'm solving is that the machine table is small along with the work envelope along the Y-axis, so I dont have room for a vise (the machine table is a vise). I dont need to make angled cuts regularly, but they do come up on occasion. I'm probably better off saying its for a job than a run, a run for me is small and can be multiple jobs.

    I have a plate made up for the table which features pins, the pins will allow me to locate the sine plate accurately and the sine plate will be setup an fixture for certain jobs then removed.

    I would like to use angled parallels but just impossible in this case with how the machine table is. Most people using these machines will mill an angled block and use that. Seems like a waste of effort to make an angled block up for each of my short runs so I have not wanted to do so.

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    3,650
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1517
    Likes (Received)
    1729

    Default

    Not my "favorite", but Carr Lane has a very good selection of clamps. They can be a bit pricey, but they have alot of varieties of clamps, hold downs, specialized type clamps (mitee-bite style, etc).

    Industrial Clamps & Accessories - Made in the USA | Carr Lane

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    26,871
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8412

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BHolcombe View Post
    Thanks for the replies.

    Thermite, thank you for this information and forgive my ignorance please. I've been under the assumption that sine plates were commonly used for light milling and grinding operations.
    Devices that resemble sine plate/bars can be, but... you noticed "gravity"?

    The basic concept had one support atop precision references. Gravity is the "hold down". Plates usually have tapped holes. Not hard to attach to the upper surface.

    But what is to secure the LOWER, load-bearing points and the reference bar - or the STACK of several of them under the bearing points?

    Pull-down on the entire assembly from above, but....

    Let's look at addressing the challenge of workholding at an angle, rather than the challenge of accurately generating the angle itself that we seek to hold.

    - inexpensive tilt table are tall

    - low profile trunnions are dear.

    In-between cost-wise and low as to profile is a plate with jackscrews to set and hold an angle. Not a stack of gage blocks.

    "Screws?" Sized to the need. Fine enough pitch for the need. "Differential", even - if need be. Watchmakers use screws. So do main-battery gun turrets on warships. Screws "scale" to fit the need.

    See alternatively cams - plus clamps for their position.

    Not hard to quickly fab one or more general-purpose angled workholders that can be adjusted, each within a limited range. It will be a range chosen for YOUR needs, not mine, nor certainly not the needs of all of Western Civilization. As a sine bar or plate is.

    See also TiG welder. We need not get screwed. Now we may own a bespoke fixture, NOT adjustable. NOT easily gotten wrong, either.

    The materials are not dear. There can be more than one.

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New Jersey
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default

    Thanks for your insights. It sounds like it would be best to make a set of large sized parallels and use the machine's vise to complete this task.

    The table I had made will be handy for keeping the parallels in position.

  13. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New Jersey
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    Not my "favorite", but Carr Lane has a very good selection of clamps. They can be a bit pricey, but they have alot of varieties of clamps, hold downs, specialized type clamps (mitee-bite style, etc).

    Industrial Clamps & Accessories - Made in the USA | Carr Lane
    Thanks, Mike. That is a great resource, much appreciated.

  14. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    26,871
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8412

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BHolcombe View Post
    Thanks for your insights. It sounds like it would be best to make a set of large sized parallels and use the machine's vise to complete this task.

    The table I had made will be handy for keeping the parallels in position.
    "Parallel" including meaning matched bespoke angles for a given tasking, and "because one can" of width and cross-section (a ledge, "ell" or "tee" foot can be righteous - perhaps also drilled and tapped).

    All to make use and clamping fit for the task, faster, easier, and do it again better and faster next time off the back of "lessons learned".

    And you are off and running toward faster and easier working in general, the mind spring-loaded to solution-making, not just chip-making.

    Your sine plate or bar reverts to a precision measuring device - not to be beat-upon, but preserved undamaged, rather - so as to best support the making of the NEXT jig or fixture accurately.

    Man is a tool MAKING animal as well as a tool USING animal, after all.

    Tool HOARDING animal, too..

    ... but you'd have to hang out on someplace like "PM" to discover how infectious that partic'lar affliction seems to be..

    Go figure...


  15. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,495
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    446
    Likes (Received)
    1771

    Default

    I usually use the sine plate to sweep in the head at whatever angle I need, but there are times when I have to prototype something and it's just easier to fixture the part directly on the sine plate.

    For that I have a box of miscellaneous small clamps- some commercial and some shop made. Just a hodgepodge of setup crap. Usually I can find something in there that works.

    First choice is usually a couple kant-twist clamps if I can get away with'em. Sometimes I'll make a fixture that the part clamps to, then drop the fixture on the sine plate and use the kant-twists to hold the fixture in place. It just depends on the part...

  16. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    26,871
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8412

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    I usually use the sine plate to sweep in the head at whatever angle I need, but there are times when I have to prototype something and it's just easier to fixture the part directly on the sine plate.
    If I owned a sine plate that handy, present-day?

    I am JUST enough of a hypocrite, I might be tempted.

    So I don't. Own a sine plate.


    Sine BAR, rather.

    Keeps me out of greater trouble...

    Easier to store and handle as well...


  17. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    5,571
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    488
    Likes (Received)
    2378

    Default

    I gotta admit...I too have never owned sine plate. I never saw the benefit in one...they seem too small and dainty to use for actual milling. Or...if they are big enough they take up too much headspace. I actually used to have one but I think I donated it to someone who had to have it....

  18. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    26,871
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8412

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    I gotta admit...I too have never owned sine plate. I never saw the benefit in one...they seem too small and dainty to use for actual milling. Or...if they are big enough they take up too much headspace. I actually used to have one but I think I donated it to someone who had to have it....
    They were never MEANT for milling. Precision angle measuring / setting instruments, rather.

    Think it through. Two round or partial bars. The surface to be in support contact has to be as nearly perfect as possible to do their job, not beat-up by dragging about, nor impacts of being hammered at by milling cutter flutes.

    Sine calculations are made or looked-up, the requisite stack of precision-ground blocks and gage blocks lift one end. The chosen angle has been set. "Gravity" is the clamping force.

    Next task. Lay it on its side. Space it off a reference surface, again with ground blocks and gage blocks.

    This rig is just SITTING there. Or it is just LAYING there.

    Either way... now it handles cutting forces? Or even grinding forces? Just HOW and just WHY?

    Same way a vernier caliper becomes an adjustable wrench if you but put duct-tape over the jaws?

    All this because the French fight with their feet and .. n'er mind.



  19. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,495
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    446
    Likes (Received)
    1771

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    ...Either way... now it handles cutting forces? Just HOW and just WHY?
    When do we ever NOT take cutting forces into consideration? On ANY setup?

    If I have an angled hole to put in a part, or it's an oddball little angled feature on a small part sometimes it's just fine to clamp it up on the sine plate. Then I don't have to square the head back up when I'm done.

    If it's a heavy cut, that's when you kick to head over and clamp the part down to the table proper.

    If I want to kick the head over, I can sweep a 6" circle on the sine plate, and I know I am true in both directions- I can't do that with a sine bar.

    I use it on the rock too. I just don't limit myself to inspections and layouts. It's just another piece of tooling to me- the reason I own it is because it makes my job easier. Sometimes it's making the setup, other times it's making the part itself.

    I use angle blocks, sine bars, and sine plates. It just depends. Whatever is quickest and gets me there, that's what I try to do...

  20. Likes Lynn R. liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •