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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by trevj View Post
    Level is good, cutting a straight taper-free cut is better!

    We had a lathe delivered at the shop I was in before I retired, the guy that set it up took great pains to make fancy pads for the adjusting screws feet, spent half the day leveling it, then went away, satisfied.

    First cut on stock showed a taper of 6 thou over 4 inches. My co-workers were losing their minds over the fact that I was torquing on the feet screws, after the 'professional' had leveled it all up!
    Worth pointing out that they were under the assumption that it was worth hiring a MillWright to change out the coolant and oils too. Ugh.

    In the end, it took very little to get the lathe to cut well and true, like it should have been, when it was installed.
    This is so correct! There is a difference between "level" and "running true". Level is a good start but the only way to get a
    lathe cutting accurately with no taper is perform a two collar test (or dial it in with an accurately ground test bar). I've had this
    argument with many people over the years and the end result is always the same; you've got to take the twist out of the bed
    if you want a lathe to cut without a taper...

  2. #22
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    Both Monarch and Hardinge could provide machines of exceptional accuracy at a higher price, and could provide machines tested to actually perform certain specifications at even a higher price.
    These are some specs for a Monarch EE sold to Electric Boat.

    Items held in chuck, facing 2"toolsteel. 30 millionths concave. Turning OD 12" length, toolsteel 2" diameter .0003" taper max,semms wide. Max taper part held in chuck turn OD 2" length. 30millionths taper max.

    An interesting aspect is actually turning the 12" length, tool wear will have to be compensated for by offsetting the tailstock, even how much oil is on the ways makes a difference.
    The cutting tools for such close tolerances must be high shear, cutting minimum depths to reduce deflection. And there is abit of a problem of how to maintain an inventory of really expensive "high shear" carbide inserts to cut the advanced alloys the machine will be working. If its just a few materials the machine will work, that's not so bad.
    The problem I had was using a wide variety of alloys, so I went with a cutter grinder, and fabricating or modifying standard tools, using my favorite blanks from Micro 100.
    When turning long lengths of high nickel alloys, the tools edge is only going be real good for two cuts, when the tool dulls the finish and accuracy goes, and increase in taper.
    The machine is not going to do that on its own, its going to take intense operator input and attention to "consistently" get those kind of results.
    New machines, need constant minor adjustment, vibration causes parts held in a chuck, to be wider on the end...lot of fun though, if you have the patience for it.

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by drcoelho View Post
    It might be the Weiler is just as robust or more robust (I suspect this is the case) than the HLV...comparable to a Monarch 10EE. Making chips, YES, SOOOON...

    Floor is 12" reinforced concrete poured just for the lathe, room is temperature controlled, and earthquakes aren't all that frequent...although with loss of utility electrical, wildfires, and political malfesance in California one could see earthquakes also increasing
    Careful man! You are stepping out of line by not following the 'official' line that every time it rains it's "The Worst It's Ever Been!" due to 'climate change'.

    Y'all just KNOW that someone will connect earthquakes to Climate Change when the next shake comes! LOL! :P

  5. #24
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    What are you talking about, OF COURSE climate change is causing earthquakes....that's pretty obvious.

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    Both Monarch and Hardinge could provide machines of exceptional accuracy at a higher price, and could provide machines tested to actually perform certain specifications at even a higher price.
    These are some specs for a Monarch EE sold to Electric Boat.

    Items held in chuck, facing 2"toolsteel. 30 millionths concave. Turning OD 12" length, toolsteel 2" diameter .0003" taper max,semms wide. Max taper part held in chuck turn OD 2" length. 30millionths taper max.

    An interesting aspect is actually turning the 12" length, tool wear will have to be compensated for by offsetting the tailstock, even how much oil is on the ways makes a difference.
    The cutting tools for such close tolerances must be high shear, cutting minimum depths to reduce deflection. And there is abit of a problem of how to maintain an inventory of really expensive "high shear" carbide inserts to cut the advanced alloys the machine will be working. If its just a few materials the machine will work, that's not so bad.
    The problem I had was using a wide variety of alloys, so I went with a cutter grinder, and fabricating or modifying standard tools, using my favorite blanks from Micro 100.
    When turning long lengths of high nickel alloys, the tools edge is only going be real good for two cuts, when the tool dulls the finish and accuracy goes, and increase in taper.
    The machine is not going to do that on its own, its going to take intense operator input and attention to "consistently" get those kind of results.
    New machines, need constant minor adjustment, vibration causes parts held in a chuck, to be wider on the end...lot of fun though, if you have the patience for it.
    This is the direction I'm heading, I really want to see how accurate I can hold my new Weiler lathe. I've been told it is comparable to the Monarch 10EE. I've got the patience and inclination to fiddle with it. No production demands, and a curiosity about such things....we'll see. As a first step I'll be duplicating all the factory tests for which I received documentation and see how my machine compares to factory tests prior to shipment. The worst case accuracy claimed by factory is per DIN 8605

  7. #26
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    There is some good info in the operating manual for the Romicron boring heads, that is also useful for lathes, Romicron claims an average operator can get within 80millionths from hole size.
    I think you will find it will be a series of compromises finding a balance of hitting size, and dealing with tool deflection and taper.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by drcoelho View Post
    Interestingly, I was reading over the manual for the Weiler and for commissioning they are recommending only two measurements, for z-axis just a single level measurement on the flat of the ways, and for the x-axis just a single level measurement on the top of the cross slide. Guess they are pretty confident about the stiffness of the frame.
    Sorry I didnt realise we were talking about a new machine. The method in the manual is a no brainer in this case, you even could forego leveling to earth through Z and just ride the carriage through X to have the machine level (free of twist). It gets a bit more complicated when the machine has some time out there.

    Cheers
    D

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    Quote Originally Posted by trevj View Post
    Level is good, cutting a straight taper-free cut is better!

    We had a lathe delivered at the shop I was in before I retired, the guy that set it up took great pains to make fancy pads for the adjusting screws feet, spent half the day leveling it, then went away, satisfied.

    First cut on stock showed a taper of 6 thou over 4 inches. My co-workers were losing their minds over the fact that I was torquing on the feet screws, after the 'professional' had leveled it all up!
    Worth pointing out that they were under the assumption that it was worth hiring a MillWright to change out the coolant and oils too. Ugh.

    In the end, it took very little to get the lathe to cut well and true, like it should have been, when it was installed.
    .006" in 4" is a pile of taper in anyones book. Did the 'proffeessional' offer any explanation as to why the machine cut so bad after he set it up? If he didnt, I think I might have insisted on them sending someone who knew what they were doing before getting the spanners out.

    Cheers
    D

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon73 View Post
    .006" in 4" is a pile of taper in anyones book. Did the 'proffeessional' offer any explanation as to why the machine cut so bad after he set it up? If he didnt, I think I might have insisted on them sending someone who knew what they were doing before getting the spanners out.

    Cheers
    D
    Delivery guy was gone by the time we got hands-on.
    4 hour drive from their shop, to ours.

    Military shop, and I was surrounded by folks that thought that most basic maintenance on the machinery, was 'somebody else's job'. So I ended up doing a lot of the stuff that they wanted contracted out, but that would have either taken forever, or cost stupid money for minor stuff.
    If it had been 20 years earlier, and the sections of folks on base that had used to do such equipment maintenance still actually existed, it would have been less of a problem.
    Twenty minutes of dicking around on the lathe was a LOT frikken easier on me than 4 hours of paperwork and explaining everything over and over, to try to get anything done!

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  12. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Striker1s View Post
    Yo what's uo guys !
    This post is less than useless as a contribution to PM, in my opinion. I see that the poster is already marked as "Banned" and it is not clear why her or his posts still go up.

    -Marty-

  13. #31
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    I have read here to be careful about not running the leveling feet only outward. Many first timer's only extend them to adjust. At some point they should be turned the other way so they do not get over extended. The final result the feet should be as short as possible for maximum rigidity.
    Bil lD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    I have read here to be careful about not running the leveling feet only outward. Many first timer's only extend them to adjust. At some point they should be turned the other way so they do not get over extended. The final result the feet should be as short as possible for maximum rigidity.
    Bil lD
    Ya, I've kept this in mind while leveling, all feet are setup to minimize the extensions subject to the realities of the floor.

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    Any luck? I see you're looking for collets...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Keeley View Post
    Any luck? I see you're looking for collets...
    Loss of electrical for past week (California fires, utility shutdowns) so not a lot of progress. I'm bringing up three major new machines (Weiler Lathe, Deckel Mill, and Brother Speedio CNC machine) and still finishing up shop remodel all in parallel all on a part-time basis so progress is slow...

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