So this is the first time I've installed and leveled a lathe. I'm setting up a new Weiler tool room lathe (Praktikant VC Plus). Using a Starret master precision level, I got it leveled to 2.5 tenths/foot cross-wise both near head side and near tailstock side, and also within 2.5 tenths/foot length wise both near the head and also near the tail stock. Took a couple of hours, and towards the end I was doing maybe 1/16 turns on the mounting screws (Sunnex) to dial it in. Is this a reasonable result?
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First time lathe setup/levelling results...
- Thread starter drcoelho
- Start date
- Replies 33
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Terry Keeley
Titanium
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2005
- Location
- Toronto, Canada eh!
That's a good first step, now you need a test bar to see if the head is aligned to the ways.
I did mine a couple years ago if you're interested: https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...11-324468/?highlight=emco+headstock+alignment
I did mine a couple years ago if you're interested: https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...11-324468/?highlight=emco+headstock+alignment
Sounds good, what machine are we talking about? Be nice to see a pic of how you used the levels. Top of V ways / up on blocks on the flat ways / riding the carriage etc? Each approach has its pros and cons. Lots on this site about lathe leveling/testing.
If youve no test bar you can use the two collar test as a cutting test / alignment check. It doesnt tell you anything about the spindle socket but it as good for an alignment check.
Chuck a slug of 2" what you have and finish turn a couple of collars and check the diameters (cutting test). If they are different recut them equal diameters over 6" - 12", you now have a 'test bar', you can indicate this from the carriage, make sure you have the indicator tip where the tool would otherwise be.
Cheers D
If youve no test bar you can use the two collar test as a cutting test / alignment check. It doesnt tell you anything about the spindle socket but it as good for an alignment check.
Chuck a slug of 2" what you have and finish turn a couple of collars and check the diameters (cutting test). If they are different recut them equal diameters over 6" - 12", you now have a 'test bar', you can indicate this from the carriage, make sure you have the indicator tip where the tool would otherwise be.
Cheers D
I would double TRIPLE check everything before even considering adjusting headstock alignment on new 80 000 USD Weiler. Different animal than small Emco. If it is even adjustable at all.
Terry Keeley
Titanium
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2005
- Location
- Toronto, Canada eh!
Ooops, was getting late, missed the "new" part.
In that case I'd just do a two collar test from there, it should cut dead straight.
Yes, this is brand new model year 2019 Weiler tool room lathe. test bar checks coming up next....any problems and I'll be on the phone with Weiler....I did get multiple sheets of all sorts of accuracy tests they did on the lathe prior to shipment
trevj
Titanium
- Joined
- May 17, 2005
- Location
- Interior British Columbia
Level is good, cutting a straight taper-free cut is better!
We had a lathe delivered at the shop I was in before I retired, the guy that set it up took great pains to make fancy pads for the adjusting screws feet, spent half the day leveling it, then went away, satisfied.
First cut on stock showed a taper of 6 thou over 4 inches. My co-workers were losing their minds over the fact that I was torquing on the feet screws, after the 'professional' had leveled it all up!
Worth pointing out that they were under the assumption that it was worth hiring a MillWright to change out the coolant and oils too. Ugh.
In the end, it took very little to get the lathe to cut well and true, like it should have been, when it was installed.
We had a lathe delivered at the shop I was in before I retired, the guy that set it up took great pains to make fancy pads for the adjusting screws feet, spent half the day leveling it, then went away, satisfied.
First cut on stock showed a taper of 6 thou over 4 inches. My co-workers were losing their minds over the fact that I was torquing on the feet screws, after the 'professional' had leveled it all up!
Worth pointing out that they were under the assumption that it was worth hiring a MillWright to change out the coolant and oils too. Ugh.
In the end, it took very little to get the lathe to cut well and true, like it should have been, when it was installed.
Terry Keeley
Titanium
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2005
- Location
- Toronto, Canada eh!
trevj
Titanium
- Joined
- May 17, 2005
- Location
- Interior British Columbia
Says Praktikant VC Plus in the first post. Edited in, maybe, after you read it?
Weiler Praktikant VC Plus: Praktikant VCPlus – WEILER
Also, see my thread for photos of the actual machine: New Machine Day: Deckel, Weiler and Brother
Also, see my thread for photos of the actual machine: New Machine Day: Deckel, Weiler and Brother
Terry Keeley
Titanium
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2005
- Location
- Toronto, Canada eh!
Nice. Ya, don't think it was there before...
J_R_Thiele
Stainless
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Location
- Columbia Missouri
You report:
"I got it leveled to 2.5 tenths/foot cross-wise both near head side and near tailstock side, and also within 2.5 tenths/foot length wise both near the head and also near the tail stock."
It is not clear to me what you have measured when you say "length wise both near the head and also near the tail stock."
The standard from Schlesinger's book "Testing Machine Tools" for a toolroom lathe is .00024 inches/foot or under, measured several different ways.
The most important measure is transverse- looking for twist. The standard is for + or - .00024 in/ft- but this is for either - or + for the full bed length ( - to 0 all the length, or + to 0 over the length, but no readings going from - to + or + to -.
Longitudinal measurements are 0 to .00024in/ft for the apron and rear way- but the apron way is to be convex only in deviation, and the rear way is to be concave only in deviation. The apron way being convex only in deviation is so the weight of the carriage and pressure from the cut lead to the way deflecting to being closer to 0, not further. The rear way being concave only in deviation is for the same reason.
If Weiler did not provide the leveling tolerances they use- contact them and find out.
At .00025 you are at the upper limit of where you want to be by Schlesinger. With a new lathe of that quality it makes sense to get it well within the standard of choice.
Using an indicator on the frame near the leveling screws can save some time, and is more objective than 1/16th of a turn- especially with the rubber footed levelers.
"I got it leveled to 2.5 tenths/foot cross-wise both near head side and near tailstock side, and also within 2.5 tenths/foot length wise both near the head and also near the tail stock."
It is not clear to me what you have measured when you say "length wise both near the head and also near the tail stock."
The standard from Schlesinger's book "Testing Machine Tools" for a toolroom lathe is .00024 inches/foot or under, measured several different ways.
The most important measure is transverse- looking for twist. The standard is for + or - .00024 in/ft- but this is for either - or + for the full bed length ( - to 0 all the length, or + to 0 over the length, but no readings going from - to + or + to -.
Longitudinal measurements are 0 to .00024in/ft for the apron and rear way- but the apron way is to be convex only in deviation, and the rear way is to be concave only in deviation. The apron way being convex only in deviation is so the weight of the carriage and pressure from the cut lead to the way deflecting to being closer to 0, not further. The rear way being concave only in deviation is for the same reason.
If Weiler did not provide the leveling tolerances they use- contact them and find out.
At .00025 you are at the upper limit of where you want to be by Schlesinger. With a new lathe of that quality it makes sense to get it well within the standard of choice.
Using an indicator on the frame near the leveling screws can save some time, and is more objective than 1/16th of a turn- especially with the rubber footed levelers.
Very helpful post, thank you. I do have the Schlesinger book, need to crack that open and review. I set the lathe in place about 4 weeks ago and wanted to let the Sunnex mounts settle in first. This was my very first pass at levelling the machine and was mostly trying to get a calibration on how close I was getting. I plan on doing several more levelling sessions over next couple of months to see how stable it is and try to get it more perfected if it doesn't change over time (due to temp, etc).
triumph406
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Location
- ca
That's one of the advantages of an HLV, roll it in, snug down the feet and your done, as long as the coolant can drain from the pan it's level enough.
you could easily chase your tail to the cows come home trying to get it perfectly level. depending on your floor, and whether you get a decent earthquake you might always be chasing level. At some point you might want to make chips, rather than wear the level out.
It might be the Weiler is just as robust or more robust (I suspect this is the case) than the HLV...comparable to a Monarch 10EE. Making chips, YES, SOOOON...
Floor is 12" reinforced concrete poured just for the lathe, room is temperature controlled, and earthquakes aren't all that frequent...although with loss of utility electrical, wildfires, and political malfesance in California one could see earthquakes also increasing
Floor is 12" reinforced concrete poured just for the lathe, room is temperature controlled, and earthquakes aren't all that frequent...although with loss of utility electrical, wildfires, and political malfesance in California one could see earthquakes also increasing
triumph406
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Location
- ca
It's got nothing to do with how robust a Weiler is vs an HLV, it's the way the HLV was designed that makes it easy to level.
Fair enough, HLV on 3-point mounts, my Weiler on 6-point mounts (optionally on 8-point mounts if not pushing against a wall). Way beyond my pay grade with respect to which is more stable and how critical levelling is.
Interestingly, I was reading over the manual for the Weiler and for commissioning they are recommending only two measurements, for z-axis just a single level measurement on the flat of the ways, and for the x-axis just a single level measurement on the top of the cross slide. Guess they are pretty confident about the stiffness of the frame.
Interestingly, I was reading over the manual for the Weiler and for commissioning they are recommending only two measurements, for z-axis just a single level measurement on the flat of the ways, and for the x-axis just a single level measurement on the top of the cross slide. Guess they are pretty confident about the stiffness of the frame.
