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Fixturing for silver brazing

gbent

Diamond
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Location
Kansas
I am improving some wear parts by using carbide wear pads rather than wear metal. The steel substrate is about 1/2" square, with 3/16 wear pads on opposite sides. Enough mass even with a rosebud it takes a lot of heat to get them to temperature quickly. I started using fire brick for fixturing, but it melts with direct flame exposure, and the flux sticks to it. I've covered that with sheet titanium, but the titanium warps considerably after several parts.

What materials will work best for fixturing the parts and the pads?
 
I use stainless steel wire for fixturing difficult parts for silver brazing. Sometimes it involves drilling tiny holes in the work to thread the wire through before twisting it tight. The silver bonds to the wire and fills in the holes. After the part cools, I remove the excess wire and silver. Usually, this type of part gets painted, so the repair becomes invisible.

For something as simple as carbide pads on square steel, I think gravity might be all you need, if the carbide is in milled pockets.

Larry
 
Depending on how accurately you need to position the pads, you can do a few different things. If the wear pads fit into a pocket or other feature and can sit as they may, i’ve many times heated up the steel substrate without anything on it at all. Not the items to be brazed, no flux, nothing. A really generous pre-heat on a thick steel table to get the substrate close to brazing temp, then slap the pad(s) on, flux it with powder, put a steel block on top of the pad to block part of it in, then heat up the pad and rest of the block together and fill er up.

If you need more accuracy during fixturing, you can use a destaco or kant twist that is considerably larger (for clearance) than the parts, and replace the wear blocks/clamping post with solid stainless blocks or a thick post.

If you need pretty close tolerances, drill the block and the pad for a dowel pin. Ensure the pin is below the surface of the pad, and that space then becomes your weep hole.

You might also consider brazing preforms or flat “silver shim sheet” which can be placed wherever you want prior to striking the torch.

If you’re going to preheat seaprately, use powdered flux and not liquid, or else the water present in the liquid flux will vaporize upon contact to the pre-heated block and make the torch operation fairly difficult.
 
I wonder how marble or soapstone would stand up to the heat.
Bill D.

I got an old out of spec granite surface plate for free once (12x12x3) and it cracked when I was brass brazing 1/2” flat bar. No telling if there was oil or some crap embedded in the plate or whatever causing thermal expansion issues, but that’s one data point.
 
I am improving some wear parts by using carbide wear pads rather than wear metal. The steel substrate is about 1/2" square, with 3/16 wear pads on opposite sides. Enough mass even with a rosebud it takes a lot of heat to get them to temperature quickly. I started using fire brick for fixturing, but it melts with direct flame exposure, and the flux sticks to it. I've covered that with sheet titanium, but the titanium warps considerably after several parts.

What materials will work best for fixturing the parts and the pads?

Fire brick as used in a fireplace lining has a multitude of issues. Nice and solid but mine flaked and cracked. Now I use ceramic brick. The type used in heat treat furnaces. No issues with oxy-acetylene flame. Lightweight and easily cut with a hand saw so you can form a chamber to keep the heat in. Part warms up much faster. Only issue is that it is brittle when dropped or impacted.

Bought mine long enough ago on-line that I can't remember where from.
 
firebrick is unsuited as a fixture material primarily because it has way too high a thermal conductivity and draws heat away from the parts, that may be one reason you are having to use so much torch to get up to temp.

the firebrick I am referring to as unsuitable is the dense hard mottled yellowish type. If a material is cold to the touch, that tells you it is too conductive for brazing use close to the joint.

any metal is likewise going to be unsuited.

alumina fiber board is my general go-to for brazing. it is available from jewelry equipment suppliers such as Rio Grand Albuquerque.

as to the particulars of the fixture, perhaps include a few pics, thats a pretty vague description.

any jig will accumulate flux if it is immediately adjacent to the joint, and flux will bond to and deteriorate refractory materials. a good design will keep the fixture out of the flame. (if you use a dissociated ammonia or vacuum induction furnace those are a different proposition).

natural stone is COMPLEATLY wrong for this, and quite dangerous to use, DO NOT even try!!!
 
How about graphite? I mostly use the soft fire brick found in kilns. I go through a bit of it, but it’s cheap compared to the projects. Pottery supply place outside Lawerance keeps it in stock.
 
graphite finds narrow use in brazing fixturing, its primary drawbacks being its high conductivity and the fact that it, being carbon, burns in an oxidizing atmosphere. its advantage is its ability to be precisely machined, and is used mostly in reducing atmosphere medium temp production furnace brazing, especially of small parts.
 
I got an old out of spec granite surface plate for free once (12x12x3) and it cracked when I was brass brazing 1/2” flat bar. No telling if there was oil or some crap embedded in the plate or whatever causing thermal expansion issues, but that’s one data point.

Granite does not take heat. Marble and soapstone are the traditional materials found in and around wood stoves and fireplacs.
 
Being that a large amount of my work is blacksmithing I can offer some insight. A kiln shelf is what we commonly use on the floor of gas forges, the soft firebricks do not stand up to much if any abuse.
Something else to do is put firebricks around the part or at least on 2 or 3 sides, this will keep the rosebuds heat from going to open air as fast. once those wall bricks warm up time with the torch will decrease.
As mentioned above the cheap bricks for fireplace or bbq use are fairly low temperature, Bricks should be available up to 3000º or so.
It may also help if you space your 1/2 sq up off the "floor" so flame can get under it. 1/4" would be plenty.
Are the 1/2 bars to long to stand up and just set the carbide on the end and braze? (with bricks around to contain the heat)
 
If you plan on doing this is as a regular operation, you may want to consider using a small furnace. Stack the parts in it with the solder sandwiched in between, turn it on and come back in 10 or 15 minutes. After a couple tries, you should be able to figure out just how much solder it takes to do the job without running out all over the place. Some toaster ovens can actually get hot enough to do the job.
If it’s just a one-off deal, you could use a set of spring clamps to hold the sandwich together and hit it with a torch. Being careful of course not to melt the clamp. Lay it flat on a heavy steel table (or plate) to keep everything from slipping around. Don’t bother with the fire brick and kiln shelf. If the steel table/plate is thick enough, you won’t be able to put enough heat into it for the solder to stick
 
We did thousands of silver contacts on copper blocks. At first I used oxy acetylene but got tired of spending $400 a month for acetylene and switched to propane. At first we used a rosebud with the holes drilled out to work with propane. We used graphite blocks to hold the pieces in place. They were not very thick, about 3/8", sawed up with a bandsaw. Wear breathing protection when sawing and don't count on using the blade for anything else afterward. They oxidized away fairly quickly, but they were cheap and easily replaceable. For solder we used easy flow sheet.

Bill
 
Generally speaking ceramic.
You don't say how big the pads are but you want as small as possible actual contact area to both let the flame in and not act as a heat sink.
You can machine Macor or the like to provide contact points and it will cool fast for reloading.
I'm assuming you are using the normal .003 thick sheet silver made for carbide to steel or tri-metal sheet if the section is larger.
An induction unit would be preferred if this is a lot of parts but overkill for small runs.
The step up from this is vacuum brazing but that is for the really big guys.

You may be able to do one side at a time if you don't overheat the lower one.
Attached is how we torch braze tips in small batches.
The part (in this case a SNRW-320 blank ) is clamped in a steel tooholder with the business end out in space.
The "clamp" is a scrap carbide fuel injector drill with a very small tip.
This done in a HF drill press. We remove the quill spring and install it backwards so that it clamps the tip automatically.
If you wanted to do both sides at once you'd need to rig some sort of spring loaded tool from the bottom.
Not sure if such applies to your need but it puts all the material being worked on out in the air so the fixture can be anything.
Bob
 

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Thanks everybody for the suggestions. Good information for ways to improve next time. I finished the first set with brute force via the rosebud. The braze joints look good even though the brazing filler is excessive and a little sloppy.
 
You might be able to reduce your heat input greatly if you can position the part in a simple INSULATING firebrick mini furnace. Various folks mentioned using “firebrick. “ But you need high temperature insulating firebrick. They are snow-white in color and soft enough that you can nearly press you thumbnail into them. A decent pottery supply store will have it and, importantly, someone knowledgeable who can steer you to the right type of brick.

Use this soft and reasonably durable 2600 degree brick that drills easily and cuts easily with a hand saw or table saw (will dull the blade) to make a suitable box with one side left open. I am guessing your box to have a 1x2x3” cavity. Place your part in there. Now, even using a small flame you can completely surround the part with burning O/A. I would not be surprised if you need 1/10 the flame to get the job done.

You can help reduce needed heat as well if you can reduce its conduction away from the area being brazed. Whenever possible, I notch the piece a short distance back from the braze point so that the steel is necked down to 1/2 or 1/3 its original dimension. The braze area will heat several times faster that way.

Denis
 








 
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