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forging tool steel
- Thread starter dian
- Start date
- Replies 26
- Views 4,372
Sea Farmer
Diamond
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2006
- Location
- Cape Cod, Massachusetts
Also, what kind of tool steel?
Blacksmiths forge high carbon steel all the time to make cutting tools, but high carbon steel is not necessarily "tool steel."
I've seen a few knife makers' website where they talk about making knives from O1, but I don't know how much of their process is forging, as opposed to grinding. . . .
Blacksmiths forge high carbon steel all the time to make cutting tools, but high carbon steel is not necessarily "tool steel."
I've seen a few knife makers' website where they talk about making knives from O1, but I don't know how much of their process is forging, as opposed to grinding. . . .
JNieman
Titanium
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- Nov 12, 2011
- Location
- Greater St Louis Area
I imagine it completely and entirely depends on what you're cutting and if you'll do any finishing operations after forging. I assume that you would do some post-forging edge grinding, but with a post so light on details, I don't know if it's safe to assume.
sfriedberg
Diamond
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- Oct 14, 2010
- Location
- Oregon, USA
It used to be done all the time. Might still make sense for a special tool in some situations, if you have the gear to do the work. These days, one is more likely to make a special tool from plain machine steel with pocket(s) for replaceable inserts.
abarnsley
Titanium
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- Mar 24, 2005
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- Palmer, Alaska
HSS would be trickier due to involved heat treat process.
As posted before, forging was common back in the simple high carbon tool steel era.
Lower cutting speeds, but plenty of work was done with the old HC tools..
As posted before, forging was common back in the simple high carbon tool steel era.
Lower cutting speeds, but plenty of work was done with the old HC tools..
johnoder
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2004
- Location
- Houston, TX USA
Theres a lot of sense in tooling manufacturers forging tool steel to make cutting tools.
I can't see much sense in trying to make the odd tool for yourself. Forging is dead easy, the magic happens in thermo-cycling and heat treatment. Takes knowledge and equipment to optimise heat treating, both are expensive.
I can't see much sense in trying to make the odd tool for yourself. Forging is dead easy, the magic happens in thermo-cycling and heat treatment. Takes knowledge and equipment to optimise heat treating, both are expensive.
WizardOfBoz
Diamond
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- Sep 30, 2006
- Location
- SE PA, Philly
Agree with Johnny N. The old Carpenter tool steel book (the tool steel matrix book) had forging recommendations for just about every tool steel they made. But you've got to forge the tool and HT it and I would suspect it would be easy not to get the results you wanted. People doing this on a day-to-day basis make fewer errors, and if they do make an error on a prototype there is a return on trying a bit different approach. Put another way, they can afford to experiment away errors, because they are going to recover the costs on volume production.
I suppose if I were an expert blacksmith and had the right tools it would be something to try, depending upon the tool. Whatcha makin'?
I suppose if I were an expert blacksmith and had the right tools it would be something to try, depending upon the tool. Whatcha makin'?
Ries
Diamond
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2004
- Location
- Edison Washington USA
there are blacksmiths today forging pretty much any alloy that is forgeable, and quite a few that are not supposed to be.
I know people, mostly knifemakers, who forge a very wide variety of high carbon steels and exotic alloys.
And people who forge titanium, monel, and every kind of bronze.
It really depends on what kind of tool you need, and what kind of steel you want to use.
The old Metals Handbook, from ASM, lists all the standard steel alloys, and tells about forgeability, weldability, and machining characteristics.
Thats where I look, to select a steel for a particular job.
We have a wider choice of alloys now, than ever before, and, in most cases, there is a tool steel that is forgeable, for almost any use.
Some people need high working temps, for hot work tools, others need high abrasion resistance, toughness, hardness, cutting edges, shock resistance, or other specific attributes.
I know people, mostly knifemakers, who forge a very wide variety of high carbon steels and exotic alloys.
And people who forge titanium, monel, and every kind of bronze.
It really depends on what kind of tool you need, and what kind of steel you want to use.
The old Metals Handbook, from ASM, lists all the standard steel alloys, and tells about forgeability, weldability, and machining characteristics.
Thats where I look, to select a steel for a particular job.
We have a wider choice of alloys now, than ever before, and, in most cases, there is a tool steel that is forgeable, for almost any use.
Some people need high working temps, for hot work tools, others need high abrasion resistance, toughness, hardness, cutting edges, shock resistance, or other specific attributes.
jscpm
Titanium
- Joined
- May 4, 2010
- Location
- Cambridge, MA
If you are doing specialized machining, like making instruments or one-of-a-kind tools, then it can make sense. Production machining not so much.
The advantage of making your own cutters is that they can be made stronger, sharper and have a more specific geometry than an off-the-shelf cutter. Also, you will save money (at the expense of your own time).
The drawback is that it takes years to learn how to make tools well and there is a lot of specialized knowledge involved. Until you reach this point in ability (most never reach it), your custom-made bits will be inferior to ready-made tools.
One hidden benefit of making your own cutters, is that when the time comes you need to make some weird cutter that cannot be bought (as inevitably happens), you will be miles ahead of a production machinist who will be asking himself WTF do I do now?
The advantage of making your own cutters is that they can be made stronger, sharper and have a more specific geometry than an off-the-shelf cutter. Also, you will save money (at the expense of your own time).
The drawback is that it takes years to learn how to make tools well and there is a lot of specialized knowledge involved. Until you reach this point in ability (most never reach it), your custom-made bits will be inferior to ready-made tools.
One hidden benefit of making your own cutters, is that when the time comes you need to make some weird cutter that cannot be bought (as inevitably happens), you will be miles ahead of a production machinist who will be asking himself WTF do I do now?
Silver steel is not O1, its more like 'W1'.
For what its worth, I would not class either as a tool steel. W1 is a simple carbon steel, O1 is a slightly alloyed carbon steel.
Both would be pretty well useless as metal cutting machines cutting tools.
For what its worth, I would not class either as a tool steel. W1 is a simple carbon steel, O1 is a slightly alloyed carbon steel.
Both would be pretty well useless as metal cutting machines cutting tools.
tell that to the chips I've made
. Both are tool steel and will let you make tools that cut steel, hand or machine - its what files are made of for example. Despite how much better other materials are, its handy to have O1 (most drill rod) around for making specialty cutters when nothing else will do or the stores are closed; required; taps, broaches, special counter bores, gear cutters etc.In fact tool steel cutters of O1 can be even slightly harder than hss. Their disadvantage is they can't take the heat, even sharpening is a problem as the heat from grinding tempers the edge.....so if you use them go slowly.
johnoder
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2004
- Location
- Houston, TX USA
All the machining executed circa 1899 on this 85 ton assembly involved the use of carbon tool steel cutting tools - all of which were forged to suit from bar stock
If you want to read about a fantastic "Materials Manager" circa Civil War, here is a guy that oversaw production and distribution of the hundreds of thousands of tons of war material. Every machined item he saw in his long and brilliant career was machined with carbon tool steel cutting tools
Montgomery C. Meigs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If you want to read about a fantastic "Materials Manager" circa Civil War, here is a guy that oversaw production and distribution of the hundreds of thousands of tons of war material. Every machined item he saw in his long and brilliant career was machined with carbon tool steel cutting tools
Montgomery C. Meigs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Davis In SC
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2005
- Location
- South Carolina USA
Always seemed to me that some shapes could benefit by being forged vs. machined, due to the grainflow of steel. An "L" shaped part is an example.
I "forged" a small internal threading tool from a hss blank by heating with a torch and beating it with a hammer, then grinding the cutting edges and relief angles. The tool is probably wrong in many technical ways, but it cuts the thread I need every time I use it.
As pointed out above, this used to be standard practice in machining. I would think that a forged tool could be an improvement over non-forged in some applications and with real engineering input.
While my tool works fine, I am pretty sure that it could be made "properly" with engineering input and scientific heat treating and be better. But I wanted a bent over L shaped tool and I got it pretty quick and with not too much effort.
As pointed out above, this used to be standard practice in machining. I would think that a forged tool could be an improvement over non-forged in some applications and with real engineering input.
While my tool works fine, I am pretty sure that it could be made "properly" with engineering input and scientific heat treating and be better. But I wanted a bent over L shaped tool and I got it pretty quick and with not too much effort.
richard newman
Titanium
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- Jul 28, 2006
- Location
- rochester, ny
henrya, how hot did you have to get the tool in order to bend it?
