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Frustrating inventors who cannot communicate their dreams

implmex

Diamond
Joined
Jun 23, 2002
Location
Vancouver BC Canada
Good morning All:
So I need a reality check about inventors in general and a specific one in particular.
Here's the back story:

I get an RFQ from an industrial designer who'd been working for some guy with a degree in optical physics or some such field.
They want me to make some acrylic parts to test out a concept...details are not relevant.
I get some material sent by the customer and an email with instructions and a Powerpoint plus a sketch that looks like it was made in Microsoft Paint.
Simple job so no worries; I cut and polish one for the guy and he comes over to take delivery.

An hour's yapping later and I still can't get him out of my shop.
He insists on calling the guy in California or wherever while he's at my shop, and I get another earful about the next thing I'm supposed to build for them.

So I get some models in Solidworks...they are absolutely abysmal and I have no idea what the hell I'm supposed to make, or what it does.
So I talk to the designer guy (my mistake!) and I tell him I can't quote anything from this Pig's Breakfast (no I didn't phrase it that way to his face or anything but I was sure thinking it)

I get another set of files that are no better about three weeks later and by this time I'm busy so I let more weeks go by and just sort of forget the whole deal.
Then I get a rude and pissy email from California Dude accusing me of not prioritizing HIS crap over the other work I have and how dare I and etc etc.

So I email him back telling him I resent being spoken to in that tone and that he needs to find another vendor.
Now I'm getting emails back...obsequious ones begging me to reconsider, but I'm done with this customer and this project.

I normally try to be as helpful as I can manage, if someone comes to me with a problem.
But somehow I just don't feel like it this time.
What would YOU do to make the emails stop and the guy to finally take the hint?

BTW, this guy wants to spend hundreds not thousands and wants signed NDA's and all the usual, so it's not like he's going to singlehandedly rescue me from destitution.

Cheers
Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining
 
Yea, I get my fair share of those as well. It always blows my mind regarding the attitude that eventually creeps in to the exchange. I attribute it to a culture that is used to Amazon style delivery without a clue about manufacturing or logistics. I'm getting better at spotting them now but they occasionally sneak in.

To make it stop? I get on a phone call and let them know that I'm not a good fit for their work (it's me, not you sort of deal). Seems to work.
 
NDA's for hundreds, not thousands worth of work is the first red flag. Inventors (second red flag) usually have a great concept but it dies when getting into the actual details that matter. I wouldn't be surprised if the designer isn't working for some equity share scheme. Usually I send them away asking for proper GD&T drawings before we can get started......then you never hear from them again. Any quotes given include lead times ARO (after receipt of order).
 
IMO, any "inventor" who doesn't take a vested interest in how his thing gets off the ground isn't serious. Not saying they need to be a full on machinist or engineer, but they do need to have enough experience to know what they are asking for and how that world works. R&D in a machine shop can be really hard to bill economically anyway. There's so much back and forth trial and error, that about the only way you can keep from going broke is to do it yourself in the wee hours of the night, simply because you want to see it come together. It's just how I see the "invention process", you can't just have an idea and outsource everything from there and expect it to work.
 
Inventors by their nature cannot stick to one thing till it’s done, they try to lay one brick of a thousand houses and then get surprised when they haven’t built a house, rather than a thousand bricks of one house, their minds can’t do it, unfortunate really, scatter brained is an understatement.
Machinists are the opposite, you get to keep doing the same thing till it’s done, no choice there.
Mark
( btw I just found a source of optical acrylic for free, there’s a 8-10 mm thick sheet in a monitor, nice surprise for me, bet loads know and kept it secret!, )
Some people are put on earth to be an example of what not to do for the rest of us, inventors are there, inventors who test their own invention follow closely
The guys that build the invention are usually lucky enough to be the audience
Mark
 
If I may suggest
Ask them to hire an experience Engineer that know how to properly draw an Engineering drawing
( I have gotten 3 d models even from large companies that they expected to part to be made from)
terrible model hard to break down the dimensions, I refused to run the parts and politely turn them down)
excuse was my CAD was not powerful enough.

two I would quote on terrible night mare jobs double even triple the cost, and usually did the trick,

I would politely recommend an other several companies to send their quotes that I though were actually willing to run their jobs.
and were really not a fit to the company.

Some not all don't have formal training so they are just naïve,
on the other hand I had to do concurrent engineering with customer engineers too, it just depends at their engineering skills
and experience level.
 
Post your shop rates:

Machinning time: $ X / hour

Remedial Design time: $ 2X / hour

Meeting with Customer or Others Involved:
First 10 minutes: free
Then: $ 10X / hour, minimum 1 hour



"I don't think my shop is a good fit for your needs" then quit replying. Or point them towards a competitor.
 
I hate them with a passion. They know what they want but can't put it into terms so you can produce a workable part that can be mass produced. Ask them about tolerance and you get a blank stare. I get Solidwork files from from all over and for life of me I don't get it sometimes. Just when I think I've seen them all another one shows up that's some smart ass engineer thinks it absolutely has to be just just like the model or it won't work. So I no bid it and he wants me to take hours to explain why at no charge. Other times they want to know how you would do something so they can go to another shop and tell them how. I just tell them if you want to talk about it send me an open PO for $100 an hour.
 
Yup, that. ^^^^^^ Then ask them for their credit card number.

Sometimes you have to fire a customer, maybe into the sun.

Ed.

I hate them with a passion. They know what they want but can't put it into terms so you can produce a workable part that can be mass produced. Ask them about tolerance and you get a blank stare. I get Solidwork files from from all over and for life of me I don't get it sometimes. Just when I think I've seen them all another one shows up that's some smart ass engineer thinks it absolutely has to be just just like the model or it won't work. So I no bid it and he wants me to take hours to explain why at no charge. Other times they want to know how you would do something so they can go to another shop and tell them how. I just tell them if you want to talk about it send me an open PO for $100 an hour.

Exactly, my time is worth the same regardless of if the spindle is turning, my gums are flapping or I'm programing. I tend to charge more for when my ears are raped against my will :D
 
I hate them with a passion. They know what they want but can't put it into terms so you can produce a workable part that can be mass produced. Ask them about tolerance and you get a blank stare. I get Solidwork files from from all over and for life of me I don't get it sometimes. Just when I think I've seen them all another one shows up that's some smart ass engineer thinks it absolutely has to be just just like the model or it won't work. So I no bid it and he wants me to take hours to explain why at no charge. Other times they want to know how you would do something so they can go to another shop and tell them how. I just tell them if you want to talk about it send me an open PO for $100 an hour.

lol yes that would work, I use give them advice on the first run, then they would give it to an other shop, after I helped them fix the darn drawings.
 
If he thinks that machining from cast acrylic is good enough for optical systems, it cannot be all that critical a system, as optics goes.

I'd second the polite suggestion that he get an experienced engineer to prepare the make-to-print drawings, or you will be unable to bid the job. Company rules, you know.
 
Email question from designer was "I would like a bid on a quote" WTF? And when he showed up with a NDA I laughed at him. Dude, I do this stuff every day. Delivered some "special" cabinets to them. They were in a cheap old mill building and everybody had to share the same tired and slow freight elevator. My driver had a long wait. Then the 60 day terms came. That was when I connected my fax machine to the paper shredder.
 








 
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