Fun Equipment Time!

B.A.D.Kustoms · Aug 19, 2021

I'm a prototype machinist for a biomedical company and I run the machine shop. I've only posted here a few times before.

Anyways I've been awarded a golden ticket. My company wants me to spend money on equipment.
I'm still aiming to be reasonable but damnit some nice machine tools would be greatly appreciated!

The Rules:
Item needs to have at least 5 year useful life
Must be >$5000, but less if we can bundle
Should be less than $250,000

I want to replace our shameful machine tools. The manual mill and manual lathe.
They are not even worth mentioning..
I'd like both to be capable of doing G-Code OR .STL files with the controllers.

Any advice on some good quality machine tools?

Thanks!

Brad

Milland · Aug 19, 2021

We need a better idea of the sort of work you do before any useful recommendations can be made. What size parts, complexity, materials, tolerances, etc.

Also, do you know CAM or want to learn it? Budget for a software package if you're thinking of getting CNC equipment, do not rely on "on machine" use of STL, DXF, or similar files.

B.A.D.Kustoms · Aug 19, 2021

I machine 90% aluminum the rest stainless steel and plastics.
Most of the work is fairly complex and has a great deal of GD&T.
I see flatness to .05mm I see true position to the same degree.
Tolerances of up to .20mm down to .01mm

75% of the parts fit in your hand. The rest only up to basketball size unless its a larger flat plate those have been much larger (2'x4') I have to be able to be versatile.

Yes I know CAM very well and use Fusion currently maybe this would be the time to bring up Mastercam as well?

boslab · Aug 19, 2021

My favourite, good envelope, accurate, robust is a fanuc robodrill, lathe wise, Colchester triumph or master, or US equivalent, we had a Colchester with man/ cnc control,multiturn 2000 I think, nice machine, and the ubiquitous Bridgeport, no workshop complete without one,
Mark

Milland · Aug 19, 2021

B.A.D.Kustoms said:
I machine 90% aluminum the rest stainless steel and plastics.
Most of the work is fairly complex and has a great deal of GD&T.
I see flatness to .05mm I see true position to the same degree.
Tolerances of up to .20mm down to .01mm

75% of the parts fit in your hand. The rest only up to basketball size unless its a larger flat plate those have been much larger (2'x4') I have to be able to be versatile.

Yes I know CAM very well and use Fusion currently maybe this would be the time to bring up Mastercam as well?

If you have the space to support it, I'd get a Haas VF-5 for the large work (gives you 2' x 4' capacity), along with a more accurate small machine for the precision work. But those two together might use up most of your 1/4M budget, so it would make sense to look for good used CNC equipment so you have money for tooling and new(er) manual machines too.

Rstewart · Aug 19, 2021

If you have this kind of money at your disposal and the company is depending on you to actually turn them a profit, you need to get someone in there to "help" with this decision IMHO.
You could potentially waste it by buying what actually Won't be best. Just my 2cents....

I program for 5 different machines and do all our tooling planning. Someone(knowledgeable) that can look at your parts could help you, I'm sure.

chuckg7442 · Aug 20, 2021

Fadal machines have served my company well over 30 years. They are still just as accurate and do what we need them to do every day. Though we are a die shop and the machines get babied. Fadals are cheap and relatively easy to run. We also use an archaic programming software through dos box, which is sufficient for 99% of our work.

B.A.D.Kustoms · Aug 20, 2021

I've got a decent VMC already. It's a Chevalier EM2033L. Nothing fancy and would be nice to replace but serves its purpose.

I'm not looking to spend the entire amount by any means...

Just like to get a:
CNC Knee mill
CNC Lathe with manual capabilities
Bandsaw

If you were in my position what machines would you get?
There are times when I do light production runs qty. 50 or so.
Mostly 1-5 pieces.

jtaylor · Aug 22, 2021

For a lathe I'd try a Weiler E30 or E40:
E 30 - WEILER
E 40 - WEILER

For a mill:
Robust machine tools from FPS with CNC control -

B.A.D.Kustoms · Aug 24, 2021

The Chevy is a solid machine I do agree. I've even got the 4th for it. However it will not do simultaneous turning.
It sure would be nice to have gotten a 5 axis machine but that's hindsight.

I was thinking ProtoTrak before I came to this forum. I did a search and someone had said that ProtoTraks are only good for their customer service/parts/manuals/etc. It read that they were other better quality CNC Knee Mills out there.

That's what led me to this search. What out there beats a ProtoTrak? I find their price range to be reasonable as well.

Best,
Brad

Mtndew · Aug 24, 2021

B.A.D.Kustoms said:
Just like to get a:
CNC Knee mill
CNC Lathe with manual capabilities
Bandsaw

If you were in my position what machines would you get?
There are times when I do light production runs qty. 50 or so.
Mostly 1-5 pieces.

Out of curiosity why do you want a cnc knee mill?

I agree with RStewart, get some machine reps in there to better give you advice.
Call a few different dealers and have them come in.

Cnc lathe with manual capabilities, does a Hass Toolroom lathe offer that? Or any other lathe of that style?

B.A.D.Kustoms · Aug 24, 2021

A CNC knee mill so that my co-worker who is mainly sheet metal could run at the same time I'm running the VMC. Or I could run two machines at once for that matter.

Also leaning towards ProtoTrak because the control is so straight forward making it easier to pick up. Some of the enginerds are qualified to run the manual machines already and could be taught some basic CNC skills.

I guess it wouldn't have to be a CNC Knee Mill it just seemed to make more sense because of approachability.
I mean were running a JET "Bridgeport clone" manual mill that I feel could be replaced by a much more productive machine tool.

Thanks,
Brad

B.A.D.Kustoms · Aug 24, 2021

Mtndew said:
Out of curiosity why do you want a cnc knee mill?

I agree with RStewart, get some machine reps in there to better give you advice.
Call a few different dealers and have them come in.

Cnc lathe with manual capabilities, does a Hass Toolroom lathe offer that? Or any other lathe of that style?

Thanks for your input why do you suggest Hass for a lathe?

Mtndew · Aug 25, 2021

B.A.D.Kustoms said:
Thanks for your input why do you suggest Hass for a lathe?

Only because I know they have toolroom lathes that (I think) fit your description of what you want.
I know nothing else about them though except they are around $30k brand new.

LOTT · Aug 25, 2021

B.A.D.Kustoms said:
A CNC knee mill so that my co-worker who is mainly sheet metal could run at the same time I'm running the VMC. Or I could run two machines at once for that matter.

Also leaning towards ProtoTrak because the control is so straight forward making it easier to pick up. Some of the enginerds are qualified to run the manual machines already and could be taught some basic CNC skills.

I guess it wouldn't have to be a CNC Knee Mill it just seemed to make more sense because of approachability.
I mean were running a JET "Bridgeport clone" manual mill that I feel could be replaced by a much more productive machine tool.

Thanks,
Brad

Having used CNC knee mills, I wouldn't consider them "productive". You can make parts on them, but... A VMC with tool changer, flood coolant, and enclosure is just light years better.

Without knowing more about your parts the input we could give is limited. With $250K there are a lot of possibilities, but the wrong choice is going to be a money pit.

I do suspect that trying to get basic, dumbed down machines in an effort to have more people use them is the wrong direction; get advanced equipment (swiss? 5 axis?) and learn to use it.

Mike1974 · Aug 25, 2021

Mtndew said:
Out of curiosity why do you want a cnc knee mill?

I agree with RStewart, get some machine reps in there to better give you advice.
Call a few different dealers and have them come in.

Cnc lathe with manual capabilities, does a Hass Toolroom lathe offer that? Or any other lathe of that style?

Haas TM series lathes.

NM, I guess they don't have handwheels anymore.

https://milltronics.com/cnc-machines/ml16ii-40/ That looks like it has handwheels, but no pricing unless you email them. :rolleyes5:

LOTT · Aug 25, 2021

Here, I'll answer the easy part: get a 20" vertical bandsaw with a wide speed adjustment, like this Jet: JET(R) 20" Vertical Metalworking Bandsaw | JET(R) Metalworking Bandsaws

If used is an option an old DoAll or Powermatic is likely better and less money. Just make sure you can go from under 100 SFPM to above 3,000.

If money and space allow, get a Roll-In saw as well. New or used, they're like the Model T of saws.

winger · Aug 25, 2021

If you need an open machine consider a bed mill instead of knee. Much more stable.
Dave

AlfaGTA · Aug 25, 2021

CNC lathe with manual capibilities....Romi hands down. True flat bed machine with hardened ways , excellent fit and finish...

Romi C Series CNC Lathe | CNC Teach Lathe
Cheers Ross

B.A.D.Kustoms · Aug 26, 2021

Ok perhaps a CNC knee mill isn't the best option...
Maybe a similar footprint bedmill from what I gather'd be best.

DoAll bandsaws is who I wanted to go with but they still haven't gotten back to me with a quote after a few days.
Those Roll-Ins are cool and sold on MSC even but from what you're saying they don't go fast enough based on what you were recommending.
I like the Jet but I feel like there is definitely better machines out there.

I'm still looking for a CNC lathe with manual capabilities though. That Romi is beautiful but rather large.
I need something with a small footprint to replace a Grizzly G4003G manual lathe.

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