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Gas Powered Milling Machine

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KevinPartner

Plastic
Joined
Jul 9, 2017
Location
Ontario, Canada
Hello all,

I've been fighting with the electrical systems on an older milling machine: Photo Index - Standard Modern Lathes, Inc. - Modern No. 2 Heavy Universal | VintageMachinery.org Mainly the three phase power in my single phase shop.

My topic for today is more of a choice; replace the motor with a single phase electric motor that is smaller, or put in a diesel/gas engine of the same horsepower. I've never really heard of putting a gas powered motor into a machine like this, but I've measured the compartment for the engine and it would fit. Does anyone have experience on this and any ideas?

Regards.
 
Powering the mill directly with a gas or diesel would be silly. You would be introducing so much vibration into the system, plus the noise and exhaust would be ridiculous and you couldn't hear the mill running.

You would be better off finding the appropriate phase converter for your shop, or if that is not possible, you could just have a gas powered 3 phase generator OUTSIDE the shop.

Do you really want to fire up a gas motor every time you want use the mill? The answer is no.

What exactly are the electrical problems you are "fighting"?
 
I think it would be a mistake. There is a reason that you have never heard of it.

There are a multitude of problems that you would need to address for this to even half work.

There is the issue of engine shaft rotation, CO output from the engine if you are operating it in a building, hp/torque curve, and the biggest of all- uneven power pulses.

The uneven power pulses will be the most difficult to address. A large rotating flywheel would be the most straight forward but will make starting your engine much more difficult.

Do not overlook the difference in the torque curve of an electric motor in comparison to a gas engine. An old rule of thumb use to be that if you were going to substitute a gas engine for an electric motor, you would double the horsepower of the gas engine to handle the same load. Torque is torque but the difference is that the gas engine develops its rated horsepower at a given rpm. If the gas engine rpm decreases, the horsepower drops accordingly vs. the electric motors torque will likely actually increase at the expensive of higher current draw and an increased operating temperature to the point of eventual winding failure.

It appears to me that building a very simple rotary phase converter or better yet just use a VFD would be much easier and take only a small portion of the effort and expense than the route you are considering.
 
The speed of which a gas engine could react to an increase in cutting force(torque) would
greatly concern me.. You'd have to run a governor, and they don't always react instantly.

Massive heavy flywheel I guess...


May seem like a good idea now, but I think it would turn into a massive pain in
the ass.
 
Kevin,

You've received sound advice here, no doubt. But to your question, we've sold machines to Amish communities in years past that put air cooled Robin diesel engines on milling machines and lathes. Even Bridgeports for crying out loud! I'm confident in application the results are less than satisfying... I'm just saying it's done. The lesson I learned from it was always ask them about it cause they'll give you back that evil electric motor off a machine tool like it's toxic waste or something.
 
Thanks everyone for your input. I wasn't that worried about vibration, as the machine weighs close to 3 tonnes and the motor would be tiny in comparison, but I'll shy away from the idea for now. I took the back off the mill and found a large (18in diameter) pulley that would at least be a start to a fly wheel, but the motor itself must weigh at least 500lb from the size of it so I'll not replace it. The real question is VFD, rotary, or static phase converter?
 
TDegenhart said:
How were the mobile machine shops operated during the WW2 and other mobile platforms?

Tom
Click to expand...

Generators. Then bog-standard electric motors.

Lineshaft shops WERE driven off large IC stationary engines - or steam - where water wasn't on the menu nor mains electricity yet available.

But talk about "massive flywheels?" And they either sat outdoors, under their own shed, or other side of a partition. Late 1950's Kovalchick Salvage, near Kinzua, PA still had some in their yard that had so served, or had de-watered coal mines.

Think of a four or five cylinder inline with an iron staircase to the catwalk that ran alongside the cylinder heads for an idea of size.
 
thermite said:
That'd rule out both steam and IC heat engines, then, sulfur and burnt souls stench of the fires of Hell and all that.

There has to be a fiddle of some sort in the interpretation there?
Click to expand...

There all using cell phones in my area....Hyper-critical at best.

HF 13 Hp electric start Chondas are getting real popular around here, the well
pressure switch starts/stops the thing.

All day & night...Vroom Vroom Vroom.
 
KevinPartner said:
replace the motor with a single phase electric motor that is smaller, or put in a diesel/gas engine of the same horsepower. I've never really heard of putting a gas powered motor into a machine like this, but I've measured the compartment for the engine and it would fit. Does anyone have experience on this and any ideas?
Click to expand...

The noise and exhaust fumes and trips to the gas station... what a pain that would be.

My idea is that you buy a few cold ones and read posts in the "Transformers Phase Converters and VFD" section of this forum.
 
I thought you were bloody joking, I laughed when I read the title, an image of a pimped mill with v8, chrome headers the works.
The only gas option is a generator with 3 phase, I have one that will run a mill, I have, it wasn’t an expensive one either.
I don’t see why a 3 phase and inverter can’t work, never had any trouble with them (except ultra cheap Chinese inverters )
Mark
 
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